Irish Horse Nine Years War

[Metternich]

I now have enough painted Irish traditional infantry(Gallowglass, Kerns with javelins, Kerns with calivers) to face off against my Elizabethan troops (including Border Reivers) for Tyrone's Rebellion (probably with either En Garde or Border Wars skirmish rules).  The one thing that stymies me is Irish horse.  Who makes them?  What are other gamers using?  I know Redoubt makes several, but the shipping costs to the US are prohibitive (especially for just a few) and I understand that the shields are ahistorical (there are sites where gamers have talked about extreme surgery to these and other figures to make them into acceptable Irish).  The Hoka Hey Irish horse (again, besides the prohibitive shipping costs) are both expensive and seem to have enormous heads.  What are other gamers using?

[Maxromek]

I've seen somebody use the Dark Age Scottish Nobles from Crusader Miniatures with some conversions.

[Metternich]

Despite the Derrick prints of the Irish chieftain (and his strange helmet) and Irish horse,  Robert Gresh in "Of Kerns and Gallowglasses" (Helion & Company) argues that most 16th century Irish cavalry (who were nobles and gentry) would have looked like the Burke effigy (pointed bascinet, mail shirt over cotun; mail "pisan" i.e. mail collar; long spear/lance wielded overarm; no shield - almost a gallowglass on horseback:
   https://img.fruugo.com/product/6/83/14204836_0340_0340.jpg

  https://www.geocities.ws/na_degadmedieval_ireland/Hobilar01.jpg

  https://www.helion.co.uk/images/extraimages/masters/helion1000807.jpg?1

  https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1781/42922733721_ba916f8877_k.jpg

[Sparrow]

Does this help? http://camisado1500s.blogspot.com/2018/02/irish-chieftan-and-noble-cavalry.html

(A bit early for what you want I know).

[AndyG]

Still a bit early but if your ok with the mailed cavalry look then Old Glory miniatures do some in their wars of the roses range.

As far as I can see no real change from the dress illustrated in the posts above up until at least 1590 based on Gresh’s Helion book and the Foundry book on the 16th century.

[has.been]

Interesting stuff.  Thanks for posting the link.

[Maxromek]

Risking introducing too much division where we clearly don't have tons of concrete evidence, could there also be differences between Irish and Anglo-Irish cavalry? I'm certain there were, but whether they were distinct enough to warrant sepaarte representation in miniature, I have no clue

Could it be, for example, that the bascinet + pisan + cotun (+ maille) be more of an Anglo-Irish things and the "strange helmet"/nasal + maille be more of "native" Irish thing? I'm purely speculating here, I know next to nothing and just wanted to see if anybody else does

[Rogerc]

I have been through the pain of this myself, I used Redoubt figures and horses with head swaps as the heads are awful. I also used some dark age Irish which I think look right, again the odd head swap to a Tudor helmet will help place them.

Old fashioned English armour for Anglo-Irish Lords is certainly a possibility, again with more modern helmets likely. So adding Conquistador Helmets to Wars of the Roses Cavalry could be a good fix.

No simple answers I think but plenty of fun to be had given there are only a small number required.

[Patrice]

Very interesting subject, thanks!

Some of my gaming group have been recently wondering about their clothing (forum in French).
https://www.anargader.net/t2284-du-costume-des-irlandais

[flags_of_war]

It's one that I have been researching to do a set for. I've not come up with the briefs yet but they are high on list to get done soon.