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Author Topic: If Lynch had Invaded. Exercise Armageddon  (Read 2951 times)

Offline carlos marighela

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If Lynch had Invaded. Exercise Armageddon
« on: November 02, 2024, 11:21:04 AM »
Found a fabulous little RTE doco with some fun what-iffing on the prospects of an Irish Army incursion into Northern Ireland in 1969/70. The Irish cabinet discussions, Lynch's speech and the planning/ discussion paper put forward by the Irish Army's general staff are all reasonably well known.  Actually, there were revised plans and the whole thing got further consideration over the following year or so. The Irish Army did actually go as far as deploying field ambulances and a couple of hundred combat troops near the border.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5_SB5BCt1w

Personally. I've long harboured a desire to game this, despite the fact it would have been a very one sided affair. Just need to finish my Irish Army. Fascinating scenario and the Irish Army of the time is a great little time capsule of modern infantry weapons, a handful of Alouette helicopters, mixed with WW1 and WW2 era artillery, Comet tanks and both modern and inter-war armoured cars and yet reliant on civilian bus services to moblise its troops.

Will keep this as placeholder for an eventual roll out of the forces and hopefully a game or two at sometime in the future.
Em dezembro de '81
Botou os ingleses na roda
3 a 0 no Liverpool
Ficou marcado na história
E no Rio não tem outro igual
Só o Flamengo é campeão mundial
E agora seu povo
Pede o mundo de novo

Offline HESH

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Re: If Lynch had Invaded. Exercise Armageddon
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2024, 05:53:58 PM »
Interesting stuff and a great concept for a game.

If your Irish Army is in 28mm we WILL meet up , me dragging my Brits along with me . 👍👍👍

Offline CapnJim

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Re: If Lynch had Invaded. Exercise Armageddon
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2024, 11:02:00 PM »
Hmm. Not having bothered to do any actual research on this myself, how did the Irish Army infantry look at that point in time?  Much different then the Jadotville 10 years or so earlier?
"Remember - Incoming Fire Has the Right-of-Way"

Offline carlos marighela

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Re: If Lynch had Invaded. Exercise Armageddon
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2024, 03:39:08 AM »
Hmm. Not having bothered to do any actual research on this myself, how did the Irish Army infantry look at that point in time?  Much different then the Jadotville 10 years or so earlier?

Quite a bit, the Emerald Isle being somewhat less sunny and warm than the Congo.  :D
For the regulars in the late'60s through to the mid 1970s, the look is basically British Army 1960 pattern combat dress with mostly '37 pattern webbing, toting FALs and the odd Swedish K submachinegun. 

Differences with the British Army are relatively subtle at this point as the British Army was also still in 1960s combats for the most part, with the 1969 pattern DPM stuff just coming in to service. Obviously Irish rank slides are markedly different but other distinguishing factors include high black comabt boots (no puttees as per the Brits) and the FALs being uniformally wood buttstock and plastic/metal forestock types.

The Irish Army also used Mark 5 turtle helmets and they tended to be unadorned or at best covered in a net, rather than the fully cammed up tin hats you would see on the British Army outside of an urban context. I've also seen photos of the odd Armoured Corps steel helmet (same shape, different suspension system as the better known para pudding bowl HSAT) mixed in with the Mark 5s.

In the absence of figures (at this point) in combats with '37 pattern webbing, the best figures for an early 1970s Irish Army would be the Wargames Atlantic SAS/Commandos, who are wearing very un-windproof smocks but look a lot like 1960s combats. Add the Empress unadorned steel helmets (available separately) and source some FALs and you'll have a decent approximation. As so many of the WA figures are toting Thompsons or Brens, these woud be the easiest way to convert to pistol gripped rifles.
The other alternative would be Warlord British paras with the crotch flap filed off but these represent a lot more work. I know, I've tried. 1960s combats lacked the thigh pocket on the right leg, so just file that off if you want to be anal about it.

As the 1970s progress, you get increasing use of British '58 pattern webbing, typically without the respirator pouch. The battalions sent to the border tend to be in pretty much the same flak jackets as their counterpoints north of the border for patrolling but woud have likely ditched them on a general war footing as fighting order is not a comfortable or practical fit with M-1969 body armour. You can essentially use British Army figures (Empress, Crooked Dice, 1st Corps etc) for the Irish in the mid 70s to early 1980s. Just file off the puttees and paint the boots solid black. At least one figure per section need to be converted to carry a Swedish K but that's about it. There are the bare metal Empress heads if you want to show an identifiable difference.

By the mid 1980s the Irish Army are still in (slightly modified, locally made) green combats but are wearing Israeli Orlite helmets. Troops photographed on the border still wearing M-1969 flak jackets.

The Irish army reserves, the FCA, are pure WW2 at this point and remain largely so up until the end of the 1980s. Bulls wool jackets, WW1 era tin hats (if any) and they were still equipped with British Mk4 bolt action rifles and Bren guns both in .303 but again with the Swedish K for their NCOs.   You'd be best off using WW2 British army in battledress.

In the later 1970s and 1980s many FCA members started to privately purchase combats , British, ex-Irish army and even the odd more exotic item from Europe or the US, so long as it was basically green. I understand that US M-1965 jacksts were quite popular.  If, for some utterly quixotic reason, you wanted to model the 1980s FCA, you coud probably just use the 1st Corps Korean War Brits.

Now, the panoply of armour and guns is truly weird/ impressive. The Irish Army had a wonderful mix of 25 pounders and 4.5 " howitzers as its artillery park. The 4.5" were the pre-WW2 Parry conversions (pneumatic suspension) but the guns themselves date back to before the Great War. Toss in a handful of Bofors guns for anti-air defence of vital assets. They also had an interesting collection of French 120mm mortars to bolster their arsenal.

Armour, at the turn of the decade, was truly eclectic. The Irish Army had only just ditched the last of its handful of Churchill tanks a year or so before. There was a handful of similar vintage Comet tanks, for which the Irish army had largely failed to buy spares and whose HE rounds had been dropped due to unsafe fusing issues. One of the Comets suffered a turret fire in the 1960s and so they removed the turret and replaced it with a Bofors 90mm RCL on a ring race. Now there's a fun modelling challenge.

The armoured might of the Republic wasn't confined to tracked vehicles though. Still on strength until 1972 were the 1930s era  Landsverks and Leylands and even then they weren't retired just passed down to the reserves, who at this time still had those fabulously Heath-Robinson Ford Mk VI armoured cars of Congo fame/infamy.

Meanwhile the Irish government had found some cash down the back of the sofa and in 1964 purchased a batch of Panhard AML-60s. These were primarily intended for peace keeping duties (Ireland was a contributor to the UN presence in Cyprus at the time and later would send battalions to Lebanon for decades to come) the surplus equipped cavalry squadrons in Ireland, alongside then supplanting the miscellany of ancient shite in service. They ordered some more in 1970 including the 90mm armed gun version and these would all be in place by the mid 1970s.

They would also order and receive the M3 APC version of the Panhard around the same time. These were very active in border operations from the late 1970s onwards, each infantry battalion along with the cav sqadrons getting a handful for patrolling purposes.

By the 1980s the Irish military behemoth had reached peak military power projection, having added Scorpion light tanks, a few Irish-Belgian APCs  of dubious worth and some even more dubious scout cars based on a Unimog chassis, purchased second hand, that would roll in mild breeze. The skies woud be kept free of would be raiders by a handful of Fouga Magisters  (replacing similar numbers of doubty Vampire trainers ) and bolstered in the ground attack role by the devastating fury of SIAI-Marchetti turbo prop trainers. The world trembled and neither the Warsaw Pact or Britain challenged Ireland's armed might.

Almost none of this would feature in the Jack Lynch goes bonkers scenario but the Irish Army was tasked later in the decade with reviewing options for intervention if the British Army was withdrawn from Ulster.

What I like about the period is that the Irish Defence force is almost the perfect post war 'Imagination' or AK-47 style nation. A developing country with a truly eclectic mix of modern and ancient hand me downs.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2024, 06:28:23 AM by carlos marighela »

Offline HESH

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Re: If Lynch had Invaded. Exercise Armageddon
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2024, 11:46:30 AM »
Great info and lots of food for thought.

I’m pondering on using the 1st Corps figures.  Both ranges , for Korea and cap comforter wearing Cold War range .
« Last Edit: November 18, 2024, 08:24:54 PM by HESH »

Offline carlos marighela

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Re: If Lynch had Invaded. Exercise Armageddon
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2024, 02:40:33 PM »
The Irish Army on exercise 1977. Saving the oil fields and uranium mines of County Sligo from Red Land invaders:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cT1Kz3ctZqE

The old 'bulls wool' uniform on display. What the FCA would have been wearing, save for the fact its berets were khaki as opposed to the black of the regulars. Green swatch behind the cap badge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEOcmqt672s

Recruitment ad from the 1970s;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9nCK9qaQns

Irish Army patrolling the Louth border 1973:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIvew6qnWdc

Similar thing a decade later. Note the changes to kit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD1Wq1Zcqsw&t=48s


Offline CapnJim

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Re: If Lynch had Invaded. Exercise Armageddon
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2024, 06:14:31 PM »
Very interesting stuff there, carlos.  Thanks...

Offline HESH

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Re: If Lynch had Invaded. Exercise Armageddon
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2024, 09:54:30 AM »
Great stuff ..... getting me hooked in here ! 👍🤪🤪🤪🤪

Offline carlos marighela

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Re: If Lynch had Invaded. Exercise Armageddon
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2024, 11:20:31 AM »
My cunning plan proceeds apace! lol

Offline carlos marighela

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Re: If Lynch had Invaded. Exercise Armageddon
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2024, 11:34:25 AM »
Even if you don't fancy the Jack Lynch scenario there were dozens of little 'microagressions' that provide potential fodder for gaming scenarios.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaO-CjF8esY

Given the lack of direct communication between the respective armies (everything had to go via the RUC and Gardai) mistakes could potentially happen. Add in that there were known incidents of Gardai collusion with PIRA terrorists (just as there were with the RUC and loyalist terrorists) and you have some interesting what ifs, at least on a small scale, gameable basis.

There was more than one instance of the British Army straying over a poorly defined border, the captured SAS team being the best known. At Warrenpoint following the bombing of the Paras' truck and the follow up bombing on the QRF, shots were fired into the Republic killing two bystanders.

You just need to set the scene so that the security forces of either side can't be sure that the force venturing into their territory or brassing up their bit of the countryside isn't doing so as part of a deliberate military operation.

Offline HESH

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Re: If Lynch had Invaded. Exercise Armageddon
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2024, 02:27:13 PM »
I’m in …. on several levels !!

Offline has.been

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Re: If Lynch had Invaded. Exercise Armageddon
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2024, 05:19:38 PM »
Interesting stuff.
Once in a car with an Uncle we drove along a nice straight road.
He didn't stop at what I thought was the cheap petrol station. When
I asked why he said, 'That one is in Punts' (i.e. in the South).
'So we crossed the border ?'
'We crossed it six times'  he told me.
How could you not have border problems with such a frontier? :D

Offline HESH

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Re: If Lynch had Invaded. Exercise Armageddon
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2024, 08:29:46 PM »
Just been looking for info on the armoured elements .

Got Mark doing some 3D printing of various armoured cars etc .

Offline chairborne

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Re: If Lynch had Invaded. Exercise Armageddon
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2024, 07:56:58 PM »
Interesting idea - my folks drove across the border when this was happening and remember there being a load of Irish army vehicles parked up.

Offline carlos marighela

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Re: If Lynch had Invaded. Exercise Armageddon
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2024, 11:53:17 PM »
The best thing is it's all at a potentially manageable scale. The 1969/70 planning revolved around two Irish company groups, one linking to Derry (Londonderry if you prefer) and the other to Newry. So pretty easy to imagine screening groups of platoon size. You have to bear in mind that a battalion group of the best trained soldiers were in Cyprus at the time.

Even the really hairbrained bits like seizing the BBC building in Belfast or raiding Aldergrove are going to be small scale. The Irish Army at the time had not established its Ranger Wing (didn't do so until 1980) so had no officially formed SF units but they had just started in Ranger training under the tutelage of the USSF at Fort Benning earlier in 1969. So there's a potential pool of trained men to carry out such raids. These would become the 'Special Assault Groups' moving forward into the 1970s. Nominally platoon sized.

There are commercially available 3D prints of Landsverks and Ford MkVIs out there not so sure about Leylands but then they are essentially Landsverk look alikes so near enough is good enough.  Panhard AML-60s are available as diecasts. Dinky have 1/58 or 1/60 versions, Solido does a very nice 1/50 version but it requires a little work to get the mortar/ gun arrangement right ( the version offered actually has a .50 cal). Solido also produce a lovely little 1/50 Alouette III if you fancy some Irish Air Corps heli lift. I have a number of these bought cheap, including one painted up as an Irish machine.

Soft transport was pretty much Bedford 3 tonners and Landrovers at the time but the Irish Army was so short on transport that it required civilian buses to be hired simply to get the limited contingents up to the border.

You can deduce the organisation of contemporary battalions, right down to section level from the very helpful Irish Army unit histories for the contingents serving in UNFICYP. The Irish contingents at the time were typically a battalion group, supplemented by an armored car element (squadron minus, 8 X Panhard ACs ), an attched 120mm mortar battery along with a sections worth of engineers, military police and other supporting services.

https://www.militaryarchives.ie/en/online-collections/united-nations-unit-histories-1960-1982/cyprus-unit-histories

If you go to pages 76-84 of the 11th Infantry Group for example, you'll see a tabular breakdown of the manning and weapons of the battalion right down to section level. It's all FN's, Brens and 1X Carl Gustav SMG per section. Curiously the bloke allocated the SMG is the Section 2iC, the bloke in charge of the gun group, which is an odd choice to my mind. No AT weapons in the platoon save for Energas but there were a couple of C. Gustav RRs at Company level. Medium machine gun support at this time was the old Vickers in .303, a pair of which were allocated to each company group. Whether that pertained in Ireland i don't know but for the Jack Lynch Loses His Shit sceneario it would make sense, as the forces are essentially independent company groups.

 

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