Scale of Empress/Ares28 Russians and Great War Germans?

[thestoats]

Hey guys,
I'm looking to game the later years of the Eastern Front of WW1 in 28mm. As fellow enthusiasts of this period know, Great War Miniatures' 28mm range for WW1 is second-to-none in terms of accuracy and breadth. However, while I certainly plan on using Great War Miniatures' late-war Germans, the range sadly does not include Russia. On the other hand, Empress Miniatures sells the amazing Paul Hicks-sculpted Russian range from Ares28 but not any late-war Germans.

I would certainly love to have the two ranges face off against each other on the tabletop battlefield but I'm unsure of how the two compare in size and proportions. If anyone has images of figures from the two ranges side by side, or even comments about how the two size up, that would be greatly appreciated.

[Will Bailie]

Hello, thestoats,

I've just recently assembled a Russian force for WWI.  The infantry is mostly from Wargames Atlantic, but supporting arms (cavalry, artillery, MG) are from Siberia Miniatures - some of these are (I believe) Ares (but I could be wrong on that).

I've posted photos of the Russians here:  https://willstoysoldiers.blogspot.com/2024/08/wwi-russians.html

Here's an action shot showing Great War Miniatures early war Germans and WGA Russians:


WGA Russians storm a trench held by a mix of WGA and GWM Germans:


I don't have any photos showing the Siberia Miniatures beside GWM Germans, but I did grab this one with Siberia Miniatures cavalry next to Copplestone Castings Cossacks.


My overall attitude is that once they are painted and based, most 28mm miniatures go together well enough that it's no problem for them to share a game table with forces from other manufacturers.  So, while I don't have the particular Ares figures available from the Empress website, I figure they will go well with the GWM Germans, especially as they are not going to be in the same units!

For what it's worth, my Germans include GWM, WGA, Brigade Games and Renegade, and I mix them freely.  The Renegade ones are the only ones that stand out, and that's mostly due to the heavy-set style of the figures.  Oh, watch our for Foundry - their WWI figures are quite small compared to other 28mm figures.

[thestoats]

Thanks Will,
If my memory is correct then the Putilov gun and the accompanying crew of sailors is by Ares28, so by comparing the GWM Germans to the WGA Russians, and then comparing the WGA Russians to the Ares28 Russians I can get a general gist of how the ranges compare. Appreciate the images and great paintjob on the minis!

[Will Bailie]

Cheers, Stoats.

I'll take a comparison shot between the "probably Ares" Russian field gun and a GWM early war German field gun when I get home this evening.

[Will Bailie]

Here is a quick snap with the Ares Russian field gun compared to the GWM EW German field gun.  They are close enough in size and style for my purposes!



(the officer LOOKS bigger, but he is just closer to the camera )

[thestoats]

Thanks Will, this is very helpful. I agree that despite the Ares crew being a little slimmer they are totally close enough in scale for me to have them duke it out on the tabletop. Appreciate your willingness to help me figure this out!

[armchairgeneral]

I have a few of the Ares Russians and they compare well with GWM Germans. The Copplestone White Russians also work for WW1. LW Germans are well armed with LMGs. The British supplied over 5000 Lewis guns to the Russians during WW1 so you might want a few of these Copplestone Lewis gun armed Russians to even up the score. Unfortunately two figures in the pack are more for the RCW.

https://www.copplestonecastings.co.uk/prod.php?prod=219

Although Empress own WW1 Russians are more for the Russo/Japanese War, the cavalry and Cossacks in the range are fine for WW1 and they are amazing figures.

[thestoats]

Thanks armchairgeneral,
While the Copplestone figures are very nice and I considered using them briefly, as you mentioned they're designed with the Civil War in mind and as such are missing several pieces of equipment that I'd want to have when representing WW1 troops. Although I do plan to game the Kerensky Offensive, even this late in the conflict it's not positive how many Lewis guns were pressed into Russian service and either way would be too few in number for me to feel comfortable using them in my wargames.

As for balancing Russian forces with German ones, I'm not sure if the Germans actually had too many MG08/15s even as late as the Kerensky Offensive. We know that based on stahlhelm distribution the Eastern Front did not get priority on new equipment and one source I've read even claims the MG08/15 wasn't used on any battlefield until a couple days before the Caporetto Offensive in Italy. If they were anything like the Austro-Hungarians, they Germans would've mostly used LMG-type weapons on fronts other than the Eastern Front (with the notable exception of the MG 15nA)

[Metternich]

Just wanted to note another excellent range of figures carried by Empress Miniatures, the Tsuba Miniatures.  Tsuba German Revolution Freikorps figures are size compatible with GWM and Brigade Games figures, and are finely sculpted.  I mix them in with my other figures.  Tsuba also has an excellent range of WW1 Russians.
 

   https://www.empressminiatures.com/german-revolution-63-c.asp

    https://www.empressminiatures.com/russians-62-c.asp

 As for the use on the Eastern Front of the MG08/15 prior to the Russian collapse, it is very difficult to find such information.  It is quite possible, probable even, that given the Western Front's priority the MG08/15 wasn't deployed in the East until after the collapse.  The Madsen and a few Bergman machine guns were used against the Russians.  Some Freikorps units operating in the East certainly used the MG08/15 (and the MP18).

  https://gunmagwarehouse.com/blog/guns-of-the-russian-civil-war/
  "German MG08 and MG08/15 machine guns were also employed in large numbers by Polish and Lithuanian forces as well as by units of the Red Army — captured from German stocks at the end of the First World War. A small number of German MP18 submachine guns were also used in the Russian Civil War. It has been suggested that the Spartacus League in Germany, and other pro-Bolshevik German forces, may have supplied stockpiles of the weapons to the Red Army. The exact number isn’t known, but it would have been a few dozen at most."

[thestoats]

Tsuba Miniatures definitely has some great ranges, but as you noted the Freikorps minis are suited for the German Revolution rather than the First World War so they're missing certain kit components. The Tsuba Miniatures Russian range for "WW1" is actually just the rebranded Russo-Japanese War range so sadly the uniforms are wrong. Otherwise I would have planned to use them for my games.

Considering that the Polish Army only had significant numbers of MG08/15s after the Poznan Uprising and that evden afterwards Władysław Broniewski only mentions Handmaschinengewehr M.17 and not the MG08/15 in his reflections on infantry tactics, I don't think Polish usage implies they were used during the July battles in Russia. Throughout all of 1917, less than 50,000 MG08/15s were produced so their usage would be sporadic on any front.

Also, the two Muskete-Bataillons were deployed on the Western Front and then in Italy, so no Madsen guns used in Russia by German forces sadly.

[carlos marighela]

The German Army in the Great War reached a peak of 251 divisions. IIRC at full paper scale of issue there would have been 6 MG08/15 per infantry company, which translates to 216 per division plus maybe some spares held at regimental level.

Assuming that all were issued and perhaps subtracting a chunk as spares, guns held back for training, wastage etc that 50,000 figure for 1917 alone is going to equip something in the region of 200 divisions. Supposedly 130,000 or so were manufactured during the war, so theoretically they could have armed every division. Of course that's not quite how logistics and arms procurement works in practice and no doubt watage rates were quite high but it does suggest that they weren't scarce items. There were more produced during the war than the original sled/tripod mounted version.

[armchairgeneral]

Tsuba Miniatures definitely has some great ranges, but as you noted the Freikorps minis are suited for the German Revolution rather than the First World War so they're missing certain kit components. The Tsuba Miniatures Russian range for "WW1" is actually just the rebranded Russo-Japanese War range so sadly the uniforms are wrong. Otherwise I would have planned to use them for my games.

I am no expert but the Tsuba cavalry and cossacks look fine for WW1?

[Metternich]

It's true that the German Freikorps packs are in "light equipment," but to my eye they are still usable with East Front 1917 figures from other ranges.

     

[thestoats]

I am no expert but the Tsuba cavalry and cossacks look fine for WW1?

Yeah the cossacks look great for WW1 and the cavalry is very close to their appearance in 1917 (only issues I know of being the cartridge boxes and stiffened caps), I was more referring to the infantry.

[thestoats]

Regarding the discussion about the MG08/15's usage on the Eastern Front, I've compiled information I've found on it in this thread here: https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=147619.0