Give me your thoughts on this rules mechanic....

[Charlie_]

I'm in the minority of one here but what's the rush ?

.......

Just my thoughts, I can see why you want to get to the juicy bit, smashing your opposition on the head with a bed pan, but they might want to shoot you first

My original 'issue' wasn't so much rushing to get into combat at the start of the game.... rather, towards the end of the game, when I wanted the infantry to make contact and get things over with they were going to take several turns to do it. So I was thinking about ways to 'speed things up' at this late stage of the game when maybe measuring out exact distances each turn is starting to get a bit tedious.
Though admittedly those were just thoughts I'd had immediately after playing a game when I felt this was potentially an issue. Perhaps it was a one-off situation unlikely to repeat itself, or perhaps when it next happens it won't bother me for whatever reason!
I was in that game using rules for disorder slowing units down to a random distance. Some of them kept getting disordered by artillery fire as they advanced, and were rolling low on the random distance.... I quickly realised that wasn't working out, with the potential for them to just crawl forward a few inches a turn, so I've rethought/streamlined the way disorder works since then.

Disorder in Hail Caesar has this effect.

Warmaster shooting is primarily about drive backs.

As I understand it, in Hail Caesar the effect of disorder is basically to make the unit unable to act in the next turn  - so that's one way of slowing them down.
As for drive backs... I've never been quite happy with that as an idea, at least concerning ranged attacks at large massed bodies of infantry. Hail Caesar has a chance of this too - ranged attacks have a good chance of causing a break test even without casualties, and one of the results of a failure is to be driven backwards. The idea of big blocks of infantry being discomforted by arrows and retreating backwards, only to move forward again next turn, and perhaps getting stuck in the limbo of backwards, forwards, backwards... I'm not too keen on it. I think the idea of them still moving forward but being slowed down is more realistic. OR, to treat it more abstractedly, they just keep moving forward at the same pace, but by the time they contact the enemy they are disordered/shaken/whatever...

The discussion seems to have veered away from my original thoughts on movement into the effect of late medieval arrows on advancing enemies... but that's ok, because that's something I'm interested in too, and the two topics are connected!

[fred]

I suppose the drive back is an abstraction - its much easier in a miniatures game to move figures back as an immediate response to shooting, rather than have to remember that next time they move they will move forward less distance. The net result over a couple of turns is probably much the same.

In WM the retreating unit can disorder the one behind, which I take to represent units getting tangled up and slowed down.

But the idea of units gaining a disorder maker from receiving shooting seems reasonable. I've just been reading the Heiho samurai era rules, and this is the most likely effect of shooting, which then gives that side a slight advantage in the ensuing combat.

[Charlie_]

I suppose the drive back is an abstraction - its much easier in a miniatures game to move figures back as an immediate response to shooting, rather than have to remember that next time they move they will move forward less distance. The net result over a couple of turns is probably much the same.

In WM the retreating unit can disorder the one behind, which I take to represent units getting tangled up and slowed down.

I guess so! Personally I'd prefer to put down a (very discrete) counter rather than keep moving them backwards and forwards, but as you say it would have the same net result.

I'd also suggest that rules that track 'casualties' until a unit becomes 'shaken' or such (such as Hail Caesar, and also my own rules) have essentially the same effect. So a unit can soak up a few casualties/hits... once they are unfortunate to have taken a certain number they become shaken, and are subsequently less effective in combat, and more likely to lose when they make contact. Being shaken could also slow them down if you want. Pretty basic stuff, but you could argue it really has just the same effect as the 'disorder' we've been discussing. Taking 'casualties' doesn't have to represent a certain number of men killed, it can just as easily represent the disorder, loss of cohesion, the confusion and the fatigue of wading into the arrow-storm! Once they have reached the 'shaken' point, they are in a bit of a state, and will have their work cut out for them when they contact the enemy - whether this is due to having taken heavy casualties or just severe disorder is really up to how the player wants to interpret it.

[Elbows]

Do you think your missile attacks are too strong in the game?  I know in some games, an archer unit can pin-cushion an entire equal sized infantry unit, which is not in line with what I've studied/read/listened to about ancient warfare (where archers were important, but could take literal hours to whittle down enemy formations in some instances, etc.).

I find with many 'ancient'/fantasy rule sets, it's easy to turn the game into a shooting game which can have serious detrimental effects on the rest of the game.  Shooting should be effective, but not devastating unless you have a significant advantage in numbers, etc. 

[Atheling]

I'm not sure what you mean but just in case you are unfamiliar with Hail Caesar mechanics.  A roll of 6 to hit on shooting causes a break test in the effected unit (even if no casualties are scored), the result of which could be anything from crack right on to flee but in the middle are results of halt in disorder and withdraw in disorder.  Disorder in HC means you can't be ordered on your next turn, so the unit can only recover it's disorder and not move.  Which potentially leaves it sitting in bow range.  In effect the arrows can cause the unit to stall for a turn.

I'm very familiar with the Hasil Caesar and I do see what you're getting at but, the mechanics in HC they do not specifically work well at all for the HYW. They are too generic a set which they make quite plain for all in their original in the book. I think I'll bow out now as i have made my point a couple of times and don't want to keep repeating it.

[DaveCrow]

It's late in the game and the infantry lines just starting to move up will take three turns to reach contact. Besides the troops moving up is anything significant going to happen during those three turns?

if not just move them into contact and continue from there.

If they will be subject to shooting, figure out how many times and at what ranges, then resolve the shooting and move the survivors into contact.

If lots of other stuff is happening on the table then just keep playing as normal.

I have seen games where things are moved along quickly until something interesting happens. If the defenders are going to sit and wait until the attackers make contact, just move them into contact. If both sides will advance towards each other, exchange one round of shooting, then charge home, there is no reason to play out multiple turns of slow advance to shooting range. Advance the troops to the range at which the exchange of fire occurs.

[jon_1066]

You should really start just outside bow range then it’s not a problem!