Help Identifying Railway Color

[Sakuragi Miniatures]

I want to paint up some passenger carriages in the old Japan Government Railways reddish-brown color but I'm not sure what the nearest approximation would be. I'm leaning toward Vallejo Hull Red, but I think that may be too red and not brown enough. There's also a hint of purple it seems. What do you all think? I want to avoid mixing and just use an out of the bottle paint as much as possible. Below are two shots I took in 2018 on SL Yamaguchi:


I could have chopped out the engine, but its too majestic.

This is what it looks like catching sunlight, unlike the last image. It brings out more of an almost wine red/purple tinge you don't get from a flatter angle like the last image.

[2010sunburst]

Looks like LMS Crimson lake to me.  Try a model railway supplier like Railmatch.

[Sakuragi Miniatures]

Thanks, I matched Crimson Lake up closely with Vallejo Nocturnal Red. I may have to add a touch of black to darken it.

I don't usually deal with railway colors, so I figured someone here might recognize it from a different train line.

[2010sunburst]

No worries.  Just remember reds like that can be semi transparent so pick a good undercoat like red oxide (or Vallejo cavalry red, it’s great under red colours).  In my railway modelling days I used grey once and ended up with a purple carriage 

[Tarnegol]

This might help.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/110599-japanese-railway-liveries-pre-1941/

[Sakuragi Miniatures]

Thanks! I did not know what that color was called before; I can get that paint here in Japan.

[2010sunburst]

Great stuff from Tarnegol.  Absolutely nailed it 👍. Grape number one LOL.  A name that is almost as unintelligible as crimson lake….

[Sakuragi Miniatures]

Great stuff from Tarnegol.  Absolutely nailed it 👍. Grape number one LOL.  A name that is almost as unintelligible as crimson lake….

At least Crimson Lake evokes romanticism, like a sunset upon the water. It's evocative.

Grape No. 1 implies the existence of Grape No. 2. Or 3. How many grapes are there?!

[2010sunburst]

Very romantic, but unfortunately so far from the truth.  “Lake” pigments are so named because they were originally derived from “lac” insect residue, just exactly like shellac used as a wood finish was 

[Sakuragi Miniatures]

Very romantic, but unfortunately so far from the truth.  “Lake” pigments are so named because they were originally derived from “lac” insect residue, just exactly like shellac used as a wood finish was 

I have an open mind and flexible definition of romantic. I was in the Navy for a long time.