Wargaming the Bible. Florian‘s Age of Bronze: Sea Peoples

[DivisMal]

I just wish Victrix would do biblical and or Trojan ancients. They’d create the market.

I am hoping for this since years…mabye it‘s test?!

[Easy E]

I just wish Victrix would do biblical and or Trojan ancients. They’d create the market.

Probably why they haven't.  Too risky to create the market.

[Swampking]

My Trojans, Dardanians and Mysian infantry are Museum Miniatures Z range Lukka - some people might argue with this but I believe that many of the Luwian speakers used the 'reed helmets'. Sehadardanians (horned helmet dudes) are Magister Militum (the old Chariot line) Sea Peoples in horned helmets. Lukka are OG15s.  Amazons are Magister Militum (again, the old Chariot line) Myceneans in horned helmets with boobies attached, the Amazonian cavalry are various Magister Militum horsey dudes with boobies attached. The Amazonian chariots are Museum Mycenaeans with 3D printed heroines. I also bought a lot of chariots from Essex, Gladiator and Museum.

I can post a few pics if you wish.

The Mycenaeans are OG15s and Museum Miniatures Z range.

At present, I'm painting up some more Germans and Swedes for the 1848 1st Schleswig-Holstein project but after they're done, back to the Lukka!

[DivisMal]

I am very much tempted to go all-in with Museum Miniature‘s Z-range. Their Sumerians are very good.
For the Sea Peoples and Troy, however, I couldn‘t yet decide. I can’t actually tell you why. Possibly there are just too many temptations around. And I also wanted a bit more „heroic“ large scale models. Anyway Red Copper Miniatures will make me go there in 15mm one day, too.

Here‘s an example of my Sumerians. Still looking for suitable „light“ spearmen and a few more bases for a DBA style army.

And yes, please post some pictures of your models here!

[Hippocleides]

Man those look great, I love the Sumerians in particular. A big 15mm bronze age army is tempting me as well. I have a Mycenaean dba army from museum's z range and they were great fun to paint.

[DivisMal]

Thanks!!!

I am really tempted to go all in on the Museum Miniatures Z-range Myceneans. The only thing that’s keeping me is that it seems to be mostly early Myceneans 1500-1300 with Dendra type armor. I want the later ones to be on the same level as the Sea Peoples and Israelites I have from Red Copper Miniatures:)

[DivisMal]

And a champion went out from the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, from Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span. He had a bronze helmet on his head, and he was armed with a coat of mail, and the weight of the coat was five thousand shekels of bronze. And he had bronze armor on his legs and a bronze javelin between his shoulders. Now the staff of his spear was like a weaver’s beam, and his iron spearhead weighed six hundred shekels; and a shield-bearer went before him.

„Why have you come out to line up for battle? Am I not a Philistine, and you the servants of Saul? Choose a man for yourselves, and let him come down to me. If he is able to fight with me and kill me, then we will be your servants. But if I prevail against him and kill him, then you shall be our servants and serve us.“

Book I of Samuel, Chapter 17

[Swampking]

Thanks!!!

I am really tempted to go all in on the Museum Miniatures Z-range Myceneans. The only thing that’s keeping me is that it seems to be mostly early Myceneans 1500-1300 with Dendra type armor. I want the later ones to be on the same level as the Sea Peoples and Israelites I have from Red Copper Miniatures:)

Damn great job on the Sumerians!

Museum Miniatures Z Myceneans are mostly in boar's tusk helmets and some packs are in Dendra armour, although there are others that are bare-chested with kilts and some packs that are naked.

I guess it all depends on what 'look' you're going for. As will be seen when I post pics of my Sehadardanians (Seha River Land Luwians), I went for a look that is unconventional - round bases and an archer on every base. Recent research seems to indicate that foot archers were more important than perviously thought.

I don't have a problem with the Dendra armour look, nor do I have a problem with every miniature being in a boar's tusk helmet. I have serious doubts that the Dendra armour look and boar's tusk helmets survived into the LBA (Late Bronze Age) but who knows?  I also don't think that 'jousting chariots' were possible as horses tend to shy away from bright, shiny, pointy objects but, again, who knows?

Frankly, I think the OG15s Mycenaenas are a better match for the LBA and the Museum are a better match for the MBA (Middle Bronze Age) but this is a hobby - whatever you think looks good is how it should be. I've seen a lot of gamers with Sarpedon miniatures in a reed helmet, while Homer states that Sarpedon's helmet "gleamed like the sun" (paraphrasing), which would seem to indicate it was bronze. My Sarpedon has a bronze helmet, while Glaucus is in the reed helmet.

Awesome brush work on Goliath - he looks menacing enough! 

[DivisMal]

Thanks for the praise, Swampking!

Everything you say is true, of course, and eventually I will buy the Museum Miniatures Z-range. After all some scholar have also suggested Mycenean raiding around Troy in the 1500s…;)

Don’t get me wrong, though, while I am quite liberal when it comes to wargaming, I do appreaciate the little touches on models.

Foundry and Eureka have some truely excellent models in this regard. But then I have tremendously enjoyed the Lucid Eye minis which are way more dynamic … and Museum Miniatures just paint up really well.

One small question: what is OG15? You mean Old Glory?

[Swampking]

It is truly a shame the destruction that Schliemann wrought over the citadel of Troy (if, indeed it is the ancient citadel of Wilusia/Ilios/Ilium, which I think it is). I would argue that there were many 'Trojan Wars' and the proper name for the war that caused the destruction of the LBA Troy is World War 0 - an incredible struggle between East and West. However, without proper documentation from the Wilusians/Luwians or Mycenaeans - it is impossible to say what really happened and the records of what these warriors looked like is based on educated guesses from artifacts and Egyptian temple inscriptions. I hope that one day an archive will be found that contains historical records and/or accounts or failing that, we find more of the Heroic Cycle that will shed more light on the period of the LBA collapse.

Regarding 'dynamic' miniatures - I've been a "15mm dude" for as long as I've been gaming and I've sold off a lot of armies that I've painted but the miniatures were very static. One thing I'll say about 3D printing is that it seems anything is possible given the time, money and expertise. Foundry and Eureka are wonderful minis; Lucid Eye has a different style but are way too cool - full of character. In 15mm, Essex, Lancashire, Gladiator (or, whatever that range is named now), Chariot (ditto), Museum, OG15s and Aquilifer Miniatures have minis that will fit the LBA look. I'm using OG15s Lusitanians for some heroes and Trojan Palace Guard/Trojan heavy infantry. With a little creative brushwork, I think that you can adapt a lot of different companies to suit what you want.

OG15s - Old Glory 15s (imported into the UK by Timecast). I always use 'OG15s' to differentiate that company from Old Glory. OG15s has the Old Glory 15mm ranges, as well as Rank and File (European Wars of the mid-late 19th Century and the Medieval range), Black Raven Foundry (Fantasy) and a host of others. Old Glory produce the Blue Moon range of 15/18 mm miniatures.

Pics of the completed first contingent on the Luwian side will be incoming this week - the Sehadardanians (Seha River Land peoples - Cicilians in Homer, if memory serves). Besides a few test figures, Amazon cavalry and chariots, they are the first completed 'army' for this period. I went on a buying spree a couple of years ago and bought all the miniatures I needed for the project but, like a lot of gamers, I have too many projects to paint (Trojan War, Great Northern War - Saxon invasion of Lettland in 1700, 1792/94 Russo-Polish War, 1814 Norwegian War of Independence, 1848 1st Schleswig=Holstein War and the 1848 Hungarian Rebellion). In the mix, the Trojan War kept on getting pushed to  the back burner but since I'm getting close to completeing the Swedish/Norwegian contingent for the 1848 1 S-H War; I'll hop on the Lukka and try to knock them out by the end of the month.

[DivisMal]

Oh, I have by now found my peace with Schliemann. Yes the excavation was not up to modern standards and he messed up the chronology, but during his time both weren‘t really understood in the way we do now. He quickly got professional help and without his work…who knows? At lthe minimum there would be less people wargaming Troy…;)

Thanks for all those manufacturers! I had no idea about Old Glory being different from Old Glory…and Aquilifer look awesome. How do they compare sizewise to Museum Miniatures?

I am also looking for suitable 15mm Old Kingdom Egyptians to fight my Sumerians, but cannot find the old Metal Magic range anywhere anymore. You do not happen to know who sells it now?

Anyway: I am more than happy to believe that there must have been constant warfare and raiding in the Eastern Mediterranean, and so I guess I‘ll just place at least an order with MM. As they say better hoard than realise the range has become oop…

[Easy E]

Goliath looks great! 

[Swampking]

Oh, I have by now found my peace with Schliemann. Yes the excavation was not up to modern standards and he messed up the chronology, but during his time both weren‘t really understood in the way we do now. He quickly got professional help and without his work…who knows? At lthe minimum there would be less people wargaming Troy…;)

Thanks for all those manufacturers! I had no idea about Old Glory being different from Old Glory…and Aquilifer look awesome. How do they compare sizewise to Museum Miniatures?

I am also looking for suitable 15mm Old Kingdom Egyptians to fight my Sumerians, but cannot find the old Metal Magic range anywhere anymore. You do not happen to know who sells it now?

Anyway: I am more than happy to believe that there must have been constant warfare and raiding in the Eastern Mediterranean, and so I guess I‘ll just place at least an order with MM. As they say better hoard than realise the range has become oop…

I would invest/hoard as many minis as you think you'll need. This past year has been a very bad year for historical miniatures (has there ever been  good year?). The owner of Museum is getting a bit long in the tooth but in very good health from what I know. It's best to get what you think you'll need (or, if you have the shekels - buy more than you need, just in case).

Aquilifer, Museum and OG15s are compatible size-wise with the Aquilifer being the 'chunkiest' and tallest of the group (not much taller mind you, a smidgen of a micromillimeter or so, depending on the miniature). The infantry are solid and can be full of character. I don't like the chariots - they're a bit too 'bulky' for my taste and I would use Museum for the chariots - they have the best on the market (unless Gladiator is back in production and I don't know about it).

Essex and Chariot are compatible. Lancashire are somewhere inbetween the two extremes. I'm using Lancashire Sea People's standard bearers and officers with my Chariot horned helmet dudes and they fit pretty well even if they're a different 'style' (as will be seen shortly).

The Museum Dendra armoured dudes are impressively chunky but elegantly so (in my opinion). I don't like Aquilifer's Myrmidons; however, they could be used for the "wild men" that are pictured in the Pylos fresco. I might use mine as mercenaries.

Regarding Metal Magic - didn't Mega Miniatures manufacture them at one point in time? I remember reading something about that on TMP (TheMiniaturesPage). You might want to look at the 'Manufacturers' list and see if you can track them down. I haven't heard of them for a decade or more!

I've made my peace with Schliemann as well but like that old flame that got away, you always think "what might have been" if he hadn't of been so reckless but you have to give him credit - not many men can say, "I proved a legend is true" and "I started a new scientific field". And, he remained a searcher in his later years - you can't fault a man for continuing to try.

[DivisMal]

Thank you for the advice. I’ve ordered some Aquilifer first. Sadly many packs are right now not available. And Museum Miniatures will be my next stop.

Having checked all the companies you named, I found sparse rests of Gladiator at Fighting15s who seem to have sold the range. I suspect that Gladiator *is* the old Metal Magic range, but was too busy yesterday to confirm this.

Let’s see where this is going. On my painting table, there are now some more Lucid Eye minis, but sooner or later the Sumerians will continue. Possibly I‘ll merge the threads.

Rulewise I‘m now outfitted with DBA, Midgard, Chariots Rampant, WAB To Ur is Hunman and Triumph for the small scale, while my shiny 28s are waiting to be used in SoBH or Homer‘s Heroes.

[Swampking]

I'm painting up a few Aquilifer currently as a 'test' to see how the colors I chose fit the miniatures. The Aquilifer swordsmen appear to be a head taller than the Museum spearmen  . I think that's because the helmet plumes on the Aquilifer are quite flamboyant. Once the 'test' miniatures are done (I'm hoping tomorrow), I'll post pics of the Sehadardanians and the 'test' miniatures, along with a few Museum Dendra armoured dudes and various others so you can take a gander at them.

Finally, attached are the Amazons that I've finished. Their chariots are done, alnog with half the cavalry. Hopefully, it'll be a great start of many pics to the thread! Hopefully, the pics will come up on the thread.