Citadel paint woes - update: it's the primer...

[Daeothar]

For almost 20 years I've been using Vallejo paints for basically all my painting. I have some Army Painter and Mig, some ancient hexagonal fliptop Citadel pots and a small range of Coat d'Arms paints, but still, at least 90% is Vallejo.

And these have done their jobs admirably, but recently I saw a Youtube video of a guy painting some 2nd ed mono-pose Blood Angel marines in that vibrant nineties style, and I got the urge to do the same; I've made my nostalgic 2nd ed Starter Box purchase years ago, and I decided this was the time.

And to take no half measures, I decided to copy the guy's recipe for a very vibrant red to the letter. Meaning I had to buy a handful of Citadel paints (for the first time in many years). And since I have (almost) all of my paints in dropper bottles, I decanted all of the new Citadel paints into their own dropper bottle with glass agitator ball. But some paints were very thick indeed, so I decided to add some Vallejo Thinning Medium and some Vallejo Airbrush Thinner, as I've done with many too thick paints in the past.

So when I got to finally putting down the first basecoat on  my first Blood Angel space marine this evening, something weird and annoying happened. After application, the paint pulled back in on itself, leaving large areas uncovered. See the picture below; about 10 seconds before this was taken, the layer was fully red with no gaps.

The effect was of a not prepared surface with mould release still on it, or very greasy fingerprints. However; I had prepped, washed and primed all the minis beforehand. They're on painting handles, so no way that they realistically can be oily (again).

After two minis, I had had it, and switched to my trusty Vallejo Game Color Bloody Red, which went on like a dream; no issues whatsoever.

So: does anyone know if Citadel paints react weirdly with Vallejo products? I've used both with other paints without any issue many times before. anyone recognize the issue?

[2010sunburst]

Was that one of the paints that was diluted with the thinners?  It looks like the paint film has skinned over without the underlying solvent/flow aid drying out first.  The result is that the subsequent drying has shrunk and split the paint film.  Try it without the air thinners, which has a quick drying solvent component, the carrier, and could be the cause of the fast skinning.  Of course, this could all be rubbish 

[Pattus Magnus]

I have had something similar happen when I used Vallejo airbrush thinners to thin Speedpaints/ contrast paints. I was using the paint for a wash rather than as the main coverage but it did split the surface. I hadn’t added the thinners to the main container, so I just stopped adding the thinners. I have no idea whether you can salvage the mixed ones.

[zemjw]

Many years ago I thinned vallejo with Tamiya thinner, which resulted in an unusable stringy mess Since then I've always bought the appropriate thinner for the paint range, as it's not worth the risk.

Lahmian Medium is the gw one, and they do a separate contrast medium.

It may just be a marketing ploy to get more of my cash but, as mentioned, it's not worth the risk and uncertainty of mixing manufacturers

[Daeothar]

Yeah, looks like I shot myself in the foot here. Repeatedly.

I initially wanted to use the Vallejo Thinning Medium on its own, and I know that works, as I've done that before. But the large bottle had not been shaken well before using it in the past, so it had become too thick and clumpy. Which gave me the brilliant idea to use the Vallejo Airbrush Thinner to make it more fluid again. I had used that before in its intended capacity, and both bottles said Vallejo and Thinner, so what could go wrong? Well this.

So I used the thinned, ehm, thinner to dilute all of the paints when pouring them into their dropper bottles. Luckily GW puts just 12ml in their pots these days, so there was ample space left for some extra medium in each bottle too

Meaning I've just wasted a bottle of Thinning Medium and 4 brand new pots of GW paint. Go me!

I'll try to skim off some of the medium by not shaking the bottles and then pouring the thin stuff out. That might salvage some of the paints at least. But for now, I'm off to the local Warhammer Store (again)...

[Daeothar]

Well, the plot thickens...

I went out and bought myself the same 4 paints again. And because I had one extra mini for the squad (a flamer marine, since I had added a metal plasmagun marine to the squad at a later moment), I decided to paint that to the same stage as the rest, using the new paints.

But lo and behold; the same issue popped up again; the paint seemed to retract in on itself, leaving the below primer coat showing. So it appears it's the combination of the primer I used and the Citadel paints. Vallejo paints went on without a hitch.

The previously basecoated squad (with Vallejo Game Color) was then given a second layer of Citadel paint, and that went on just as smooth as its competitor. So the conclusion is that Citadel paints do not play nice with the cheap Action primers I've been using for many, many years.

Now I've got a double stock of 4 Citadel paints that I can probably use without a problem, even the diluted ones, as long as I don't paint them straight onto the primer.

I might shell out and buy a Vallejo primer, just to experiment a bit, even though they literally cost 10 times as much as the ones I've used for over a decade.

Anyone experienced an issue like that?

[Silent Invader]

I've tried various primers but Vallejo brush on is my absolute go to

[mikedemana]

I've started using brush-on Liquitex white Gesso on the recommendation of a friend. I'm very happy with the coverage of the paint that goes on top of it.

Mike Demana