Neanderthal home and Weapons

[former user]

@argsilverson
now You are going into detail 
the thing with the Younger Dryas and Agriculture was new to me - care to give me quotation by PM? Always keen to read some new hypothesis.
@Michi - You are right and I return the compliment

I noticed that many (or most)  wargamers involved in historical topics research their armies/periods at a very sophisticated level because they are dealing with sophisticated things in real-life (and with that I do not mean academic stuff alone, on the contrary).
Maybe the "historical reenacting" of this kind somehow goes with the desire to look beyond things and understand the past in depth?
can't say
 
I wonder what @Duhamel does for instance - I've noticed his sense for intricate detail and ability to compose harmonic scenery from it - ther must be some kind of professionality behind 

[duhamel]

well, you do not entirely wrong. In fact, I'm always interested in history in general. For example, stories of George Catlin, and the little things he says ...
fields of sunflowers that grew wild across the plains. I love this kind of small details

[argsilverson]

 a small correction of my earlier post:

Younger Dryas period ended approx around 8.200 BC (10.200 yBP)  and was a cool and arid period, followed by Holocene warm up (Holocene temperature optimum).

[Red Orc]

I suspect that former user meant he didn't understand what you meant about the relationship between the adoption of agriculture and the warming following the younger Dryas. Did you mean that the warming allowed agriculture to develop, or that agriculture caused the warming?

The former is certainly arguable, in that improved climatic conditions provided the opportunity to cultivate various plants (or, less certainly, that climatic changes created the necessity to guarantee foodstuffs); but I don't understand how the beginings of agriculture would actually cause the Holocene temperature optimum - I can't see what the mechanism would be.

Of course, that may not be what you meant. But if it is, would you care to elaborate? I would also be very interested to hear about it, like former user, I'm also interested  to hear new theories!

[argsilverson]

I suspect that former user meant he didn't understand what you meant about the relationship between the adoption of agriculture and the warming following the younger Dryas. Did you mean that the warming allowed agriculture to develop, or that agriculture caused the warming?

The former is certainly arguable, in that improved climatic conditions provided the opportunity to cultivate various plants (or, less certainly, that climatic changes created the necessity to guarantee foodstuffs); but I don't understand how the beginings of agriculture would actually cause the Holocene temperature optimum - I can't see what the mechanism would be.

Of course, that may not be what you meant. But if it is, would you care to elaborate? I would also be very interested to hear about it, like former user, I'm also interested  to hear new theories!

OK this gonna a little further and I do not know whether it is of general interest. A small explain:


The first answer is both ways. Warmer period favoured agriculture and agriculture can contribute to a further warming up.
The cooler period (i.e. Younger Dryas) has a great effect. Early cereal cultivators lost their land and production. In order to survive , they had to go back to hunting and food gathering, which is a cultural drawback. But the small game is disappearing etc.

With the warming up, people get back to agriculture, claiming land from the forests, building irrigation, making cities etc. to be sure about their future food supplies etc

The actual mechanism which caused the climate change (cooling and warming up) is not yet  cleared up and seems to be due to natural phenomena, like the earth orbit, density of solar radiation, volcanism and dust. It also observed by proxy data (analysis of bubble gas trapped inside greenland's ice) that the carbon dioxide was also very high. Agriculture, animal husbandry -sheep and cow farming- deforestation cause increased CO2 emmissions. Being a non industrial era the only source that it could come from was agriculture, concidering that we have no data of an increased volcanism or natural CO2 emissions. The high percentage of CO2 has also triggered an additional warming up. So, it seems that agriculture also played some vital role.

The question, i am afraid, is open and argueable. How climate changes occure.  That is why  our present science societies cannot really give a good concrete answer.

As I told you everything is open for discussions and I do not know whether I am able to give an answer. Hope I have cleared a bit a very complicated matter and not having tired all of us with long essays.

[Red Orc]

Thanks Argsilverson for the brief outline of the explanation; sorry to all - especially Duhamel - for dragging this off topic somewhat.

It is a very lovely rock-shelter for your Neanderthals/cavemen, whether their spear-points are accurate or not ... or even whether Neanderthals used spears at all... but these academic debates are maybe beside the point (no pun intended). Yay! for cavemen (and cavewomen) and their groovy rock-shelters!

[duhamel]

not all this talk does not bother me. it may well be a bit off topic, it is very interesting;

[argsilverson]

Duhamel,

a very nice piece of terrain you have made here!

[former user]

indeed

so, where's the population? 

[Gluteus Maximus]

indeed

so, where's the population? 

Hunting Mammoths? 

[Supercollider]

I wonder if hunting mammoths was anything like this?



Nice terrain and interesting discussion

[Gluteus Maximus]

That's just a typical saturday night at the rugby club 

[duhamel]

Hunting Mammoths? 

no, they must be between Canada and France at this time. or when they cross the Atlantic by swimming ... or then the French post office is still hers

[Gluteus Maximus]

no, they must be between Canada and France at this time. or when they cross the Atlantic by swimming ... or then the French post office is still hers

 

I hope their canoes are well made 

[duhamel]

well until my Neanderthal eventually crossing the Atlantic, I am amused to make it









we must spend time