S or O Scale?

[Mr Ray]

I'm going to start work on a 28mm western town and thought I would use model railroad windows and doors if possible. I know it's an age old question, but what do you all think? I'm struggling with it. S scale looks too small and O looks too big. Help!!!!

[Johnno]

I suppose it all depends on the manufacturer. I found that the 1/4 scale by Grandt Line works well for windows and doors.

I know it would be too easy if everything could just be either metric or imperial scales but that would make too much sense.

For example, S scale is 1/64 which supposedly is 28mm. However, I find that some companies (Sloppy Jalopy) 1/48 scale vehicles seem to be a perfect fit for 28mm vehicles while others (JFTM) 1/53 is perfect for 28mm.

[Red Orc]

It's more to do with the size of your minis than anything else. '28mm' isn't a scale. It's a guess, and no-one knows what it means. 28mm to top of the head? 28mm to the eyes? 28mm for a 6 foot man? 28mm for a 7'6" man?

Back in the day, when minis were 25mm (or 'one inch' in the English-speaking world) to the tops of their heads, we all knew that was 1:72 - one inch represents six feet (72 inches). As 28mm is now closer to 1:56 usually than 1:72, O is probably your best bet... BUT! it's conventional to have your minis slightly oversized for the terrain (or the terrain undersized) because it 'looks better' and that's the point. It's not very helpful but 'whatever you think looks best', is best.

[Michi]

My opinion is that S scale is the perfect one and I would be very happy if I could lay hands on here. I help myself out with 0n30 rolling stock and scratch built buildings.

[Dolmot]

'28mm' isn't a scale. It's a guess, and no-one knows what it means.

Well, O (or 0) gauge isn't a scale either. It may be 1/43.5, 1/45, or 1/48. I think the 1/48 US scale is fairly good for small terrain bits. That's because details are often compared to 28mm models' exaggerated heads and hands. 1/48 doorway may be good, because a model will fit through it even with its base.

Lead minis are not scale models. It really depends on the ranges you use, how "heroic" they look, practical gaming aspects and so on. Surely you can buy windows etc. in various scales and use them in different buildings? I don't think they're all so strictly scaled in real life either.

[archangel1]

Here's a link to a nice downloadable shareware programme that allows you to work with scales, up, down and sideways! It'll help you figure out the differences between any combination of scales and more.

As an example, if we accept 28mm as being nominally 1/56, you can quickly calculate that European O (1/43) is roughly 30%(!) larger while S (1/64) is only about 12.5% smaller.

(Unless you purchase the license, you'll have to put up with a slight delay in closing the programme.  No biggie.)

http://www.quickscale.net/

[P_Clapham]

Wait, so 25mm figures are 1:72 scale?  I thought 20mm was 1:72 scale.

[Red Orc]

A 25mm figure that really is 25mm to the top of his head that represents a guy 6 feet tall is 1:72, yes.

25mm=1 inch (near as damnit...), so 1 inch represents 6 feet, 6 feet is 72 inches, so one inch represents 72 inches, so 1=72 or 1:72 or 1/72.

A 20mm fig that really is 20mm at 1:72 represents someone about 4'9" ish.

But that doesn't really matter, in the end, I reckon; as I said earlier, what you think looks right, is right.

[archangel1]

20mm is closer to 1/76 scale.  20mm works out to roughly 5', with a 5'8'' man coming in around 22mm, well within range considering the vagaries of casting.

[Mr Ray]

I'm really confused now! I just ordered some S scale windows and doors. I'll see how they look and report back.

[Burgundavia]

A 25mm figure that really is 25mm to the top of his head that represents a guy 6 feet tall is 1:72, yes.

25mm=1 inch (near as damnit...), so 1 inch represents 6 feet, 6 feet is 72 inches, so one inch represents 72 inches, so 1=72 or 1:72 or 1/72.

A 20mm fig that really is 20mm at 1:72 represents someone about 4'9" ish.

But that doesn't really matter, in the end, I reckon; as I said earlier, what you think looks right, is right.

This only applies for true 25mm, which very few manufacturers produce. Ground Zero Games out of the UK is one of them. Most miniatures are 28mm or larger these days and they really aren't 1/72. They are closer to 1/56. I have some GZG scifi stuff, some big 1/72 plastics and a lot of random 28mm from Reaper, Pulp Figures, etc. on my painting table and all three are very different sizes and wouldn't really work together. (The exception to this rule is that you can use 1/72 or 25mm as historical Asian figures, as they size difference is actually pretty close to actual size differences between Europeans and Asians pre-20th century).

[Thunderchicken]

Mr Gray, I used the Grandt Line windows on this build and they work fine with 25/28mm:

[archangel1]

...I just ordered some S scale windows and doors. I'll see how they look and report back.

I don't think windows will be the problem.  After all, a hole is a hole is a hole.  Doors, on the other hand, might be tricky.  I think S will prove to be slightly too small, particularly for 20th-21st Century models.  They might work for your western town, though, since most people were apparently slightly shorter back then and doorways do seem to be lower in many surviving buildings.

[Red Orc]

This only applies for true 25mm, which very few manufacturers produce. Ground Zero Games out of the UK is one of them. Most miniatures are 28mm or larger these days and they really aren't 1/72. They are closer to 1/56...

 

...
Back in the day, when minis were 25mm (or 'one inch' in the English-speaking world) to the tops of their heads, we all knew that was 1:72 - one inch represents six feet (72 inches). As 28mm is now closer to 1:56 usually than 1:72...

A 25mm figure that really is 25mm to the top of his head that represents a guy 6 feet tall is 1:72, yes...

You know, it's spooky but meaningless co-incidences like that that almost convince me that Red Orc is actually trying to communicate instead of just randomly thumping his keyboard with a sock full of billiard balls...

[P_Clapham]

I wish Ground Zero Games weren't so hit or miss on figure quality.  They have some very nice miniatures, but neither the UK or Australia site (Eureka) have many pictures.

Thanks for the clarification on the scales.  I've recently gotten into 1:72 scale figures from Caesar, as I found they matched up with my hotwheels and matchbox cars.

This only applies for true 25mm, which very few manufacturers produce. Ground Zero Games out of the UK is one of them. Most miniatures are 28mm or larger these days and they really aren't 1/72. They are closer to 1/56. I have some GZG scifi stuff, some big 1/72 plastics and a lot of random 28mm from Reaper, Pulp Figures, etc. on my painting table and all three are very different sizes and wouldn't really work together. (The exception to this rule is that you can use 1/72 or 25mm as historical Asian figures, as they size difference is actually pretty close to actual size differences between Europeans and Asians pre-20th century).