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Author Topic: Start of My Winter & Continuation War Project  (Read 43318 times)

Offline Durutti

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Start of My Winter & Continuation War Project
« Reply #120 on: March 15, 2008, 07:01:32 PM »
Quote from: "Driscoles"
Ok, thank you.

I wasnt precise with my question.

I know that the calibre is different and I can see that the chassis was the same, but why was that ?

Was it a co production of pre war German and Soviet business relations ?

It doesnt matter if you dont know it. i try to google it out. In case you know it please let me know. Thanks alot !

Björn


oh sorry mate, bit of a daft answer really!!

The Wikepedia bit has it just about spot on, the Soviets saw the guns, and got hold of the details from Rheinmetal, then just copied it, original version had a 37mm gun, but was upgraded to the 45mm they were using on their tanks.

A lot of these guns, plus the PAK36 saw service in the SCW, the Germans were quite happy that their Pak could take out a T26, and merilly issued it to the Wermacht, Got a nasty surprise when they came up against the more heavily armoured French and Soviet stuff, Given the lovely title "The Doorknocker" by the troops.

Offline Helen

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Start of My Winter & Continuation War Project
« Reply #121 on: March 15, 2008, 09:42:31 PM »
From the Axis Forum under Winter War & Continuation War:
AFAIK The Soviet 45mm had spoked wheels which were actualy Soviet made copies of the Ford Model A wheel. Ford built a plant in the Soviet Union but was never paid . Tero T

Best Wishes

Helen
Best wishes,
Helen
Love many things, for therein lies the true strength, and whosoever loves much performs much, and can accomplish much, and what is done in love is done well (V van Gogh)

Offline Driscoles

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Start of My Winter & Continuation War Project
« Reply #122 on: March 15, 2008, 11:24:08 PM »
Helen, Durutti,
thanks.
, ,

Offline janner

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Start of My Winter & Continuation War Project
« Reply #123 on: March 25, 2008, 12:05:56 PM »
Time for some BAM Finn action:


Offline Lt. Hazel

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Start of My Winter & Continuation War Project
« Reply #124 on: March 25, 2008, 12:17:16 PM »
This is a nice one janner!!

Offline fho

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Start of My Winter & Continuation War Project
« Reply #125 on: March 25, 2008, 06:04:37 PM »
Cool! That is nice paint job.

I too had time to prepare my BAM Finns during the Easter holiday. Here is some pictures of the figures after cleaning and basing:  
http://shell.tunti.net/~fh/28mm-Winter-War/

BAM Finns are a must, especially the ski troops. In my opinion they look correct and immediately you notice them them to be Finns. Almost too authentic, I still remember wearing a similar gray cap, jacket during and black fur winter hat in my '90 military service.

I'm waiting next holiday so that I could paint them. Might take a while though, so don't hold your breath :)
Gravity is a myth, the Earth sucks too

Offline Helen

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Start of My Winter & Continuation War Project
« Reply #126 on: March 25, 2008, 08:20:47 PM »
Quote from: "janner"
Time for some BAM Finn action:



Hi Stephen,

Great work on the officer. 8)

What colours did you use and are you using Vellejo?

I've my first lot based ready for undercoat.

I'm currently working on transport for the Finns. I'm using the interwar trucks/bus from FOA plus some Gaz. What colours do you recommend for the interwar trucks and bus. I'm leaving the Gaz trucks as their original colour from Russia.

Oh, do you have a colour for the Finnish T26s used in the Winter War? I'm trying to decypher the colour in the books I've.

Pics soon.

Helen
Edit: Doh, I can't spell

Offline Helen

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UpDate
« Reply #127 on: March 25, 2008, 08:34:47 PM »
Right, I decided to amend the title to include the Continuation War. Why, well thats because two companies are really designing both types of climatic conflicts. And I've one and not the other so will be ordering from Lon very soon. In addition it means the rest of my Soviet armour and infantry can be included under thsi heading.

Jatkosota
http://www.rajajoki.com/index.htm

Incidently, whilst there is no additional room in the subject heading the Lapland War is also included. I wish to look at the Brigade Games Gebirgsjager as the opponents for the Finns in this short conflict.



Another Winter War pack from Brigade Games is around the corner.
Lon has said "I already have another pack here unreleased. Just need to clean up the masters and get product molds made"  8)

This is good news plus we may see a Winter War Bofors crew and the Bofors in addition.  :o

I heard on the QT that a BT 42 could be on the cards :lipps:

Just need you guys to keep plugging away at BAM and Brigade Games crew to see more releases. Great work sofar from keen folks who like this conflict.

Jeff at JTFM Enterprises is a lovely chap to chat too. He will listen to new ideas. So please suggest anything that might be nice to have here on this forum or at his Yahoo Group.

I'm looking at some JSU 152s, SU 76s, T70s etc. I know I can use one JSU 152 for my Finns which I'll paint up using the three colour scheme. I know they had two and one was quickly destroyed a few days later and the other sent back and converted into a recovery vehicle. However, I wish to see this AFV in three tone camo.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/110741/thread/1157449052/A+Finnish+ISU-152

The others are for the soviets. Incidently the Finns did capture one T70 but only used for trials.

http://www.diewaffenkammer.com/

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Tiger_I/

Happy Days ahead I think 8)

Here are more links to Finnish models or relevant that I pan through the various sites to find and to give inspiration to what I've or would like to see.

http://www.ipmsfinland.org/galleria/nayttelyt/ipmshelsinkiopen2001/kuvat/055.jpg
http://www.ipmsfinland.org/galleria/nayttelyt/ipmshelsinkiopen2000/kuvat/07.jpg
http://www.ipmsfinland.org/galleria/nayttelyt/ipmshelsinkiopen2000/kuvat/08.jpg
http://www.ipmsfinland.org/galleria/nayttelyt/ipmshelsinkiopen2000/kuvat/24.jpg
http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/sturmi1.html
http://www.network54.com/Forum/110741/thread/1028865827/Finnish+finish+finished%21++%3B-%29
http://www.network54.com/Forum/110741/thread/1126062174/Carelia+1944
http://www.network54.com/Forum/110741/thread/1128992740/T-37A+in+Finnish+service+%28almost+done%29
http://www.network54.com/Forum/110741/thread/1130143618/Finnish+vignette
http://www.network54.com/Forum/110741/thread/1146751011/Models+for+Helsinki+Model-Expo
http://www.network54.com/Forum/110741/thread/1156357543/T-28+Russian+Medium+Tank+snowdio+done+%21%21%21
http://www.network54.com/Forum/110741/thread/1157317890/Piece+of+Mind
http://www.network54.com/Forum/110741/thread/1169419222/Tiny+Finnish+T26+in+progress
http://www.missing-lynx.com/reviews/axis/ee35116reviewal_1.html

http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=330[/b]

Offline Helen

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Finnish T34/76
« Reply #128 on: March 26, 2008, 09:59:58 AM »
Hi Folks, I pan various sites to get info on the history of the T34/76 used by the Finnish forces. Below is some of the information concerning the T34/76 used by the Finnish Forces:

Finnish T-34's...   
Ps.231-1  - m1940  The Armour Museum in Parola
Ps.231-2  R-105  m1940  Savon prikaati, Mikkeli
Ps.231-3  R-111  m1940? Joensuu (?)
Ps.231-4  R-155  m1942  Destroyed. Parts left.
Ps.231-5  -      m1943  Destroyed?
Ps.231-6  -      m1942  Destroyed?
Ps.231-7  -      m1943  The Armour Museum in Parola
Ps.231-1 to Ps.231-4 were captured by the Finns.
Ps.231-5 - Ps.231-7 were bought from Germany in 1944.

Ps.231-1:
Type:Mod.1941 of KhPZ(no.183).
Feature:welded turret, early anchor type front & rear tow-shackles, muzzule brake of Finnish-made.


Ps.231-2(ex R-105):
Type:Mod.1941 of STZ.
Feature:welded turret, early tow-shackles. standerd early dish type roadwheels, early 550mm tracks (in war time).
After repair in (perhaps) early 1942, it recieved finnish-made fenders and head lights, etc.

..Dec/1941; hasty winter-wash on overall dark green. (perhaps) dark blue Hakaristi on hull front and turret sides.
..Spring 1943: winter-wash. Hakaristi on turret side and hatch. Registration no."105" below hull MG and on hull rear(?). Nicknam "Heli" on gun shield.
..June/1943; 3-color camo. Hakaristi on hull front(?), turret sides and rear. Yellow "321" on turret sides.


Ps.231-3(ex-R-111)
Type:Mod.1941 of KhPZ(no.183).
Feature:welded turret, early tow-shackles. Standerd early dish type roadwheels, early 550mm tracks (in war time).

..Spring 1942; overall dark green, Hakaristi on hull front and turret sides (and rear?). Registration no."111" on hull front (and rear?).


Ps.231-4(ex-R-155)
Type:inicial production mod.1943 of UVZ(no.183)
Feature:so-called "laminate" turret, 4 periscopes around turret roof of finnish modeification, early anchor type front & rear tow-shackles. Early 550mm tracks, early dish type roadwheels (narrow wheels on left no.2 & 4. right side unkown), finnish-made fenders and head lights, etc.

..Oct/1942; overall dark green, Hakaristi on turret sides and rear. Registration no."155" on hull front and rear.
..Jun/1943; 3-color camo, Hakaristi on turret sides (and rear?), yellow "322" on turret sides.


Ps.231-5
Type:late mod.1943(with cupola) of Krasnoye Sormovo Zavod(No.112)
Feature:"soft-edge" turret, repaired turret periscope, german-made fenders, dish type wheels, late 500mm tracks(some links were 2-piece type), "patche" on frontal armor, etc.

..Jun/1943; 3-color camo. Hakaristi on hull front, turret sides and rear(?), and loader's hatch(?). yellow "321" on turret sides. Registration no."Ps231-5" below hull MG and on hull rear.


Ps.231-6
Type:mod.1942 of Krasnoye Sormovo Zavod(No.112)
Feature:cast turret, dish type wheels, late 550mm tracks, etc.

..Nov/1944; 3-color camo(or winter camo). Hakaristi on hull front(?), turret sides and rear(?). yellow "322" on turret sides.


Ps.231-7
Type:late mod.1943 of (perhaps)UVZ(no.184).
Feature:"hard-edge" turret of mod.1943 with cupola, early engine deck grilles of mod.1940-41, rear panel of mod.1943, german-made fenders, repaired loader's periscope, late 500mm tracks, etc.

..Jul/1944; 3-color camo, Hakaristi on hull front, turret sides and rear(?), and loader's hatch. Turret number unknown.

GENERAL NOTES:1) Fender tips, headlights and fender stowage were partially standardized already during the first war-time repair and for the second time after the war. These details can vary to a certain extent between different tanks and one single tank depending on the time of the photographs.
The three tanks bought from Germany in summer 1944 were used with their German style fender tips until the end of the war.2) Especially tracks and road wheels as well as idler wheels and drive sprockets are consumables! These were changed when needed. Worth pointing is that due to lack of T-34 spares we used BT road wheels which were modified to be mounted on T-34 hubs. The wheel diameter is the same (roughly) but BT wheels are narrower, which can be seen also in photos. To ease the stress on these narrower wheels, they were mounted at first on the 2nd and 4th stations. Later on, they emerged in other stations as well due to the lack of original T-34 road wheels. BT road wheels were available in large guantities because a great number of these vehicles was captured but not taken into Finnish use (except 18+1 pcs modified to BT-42 and BT-43).3) The towing hook locks (a spring loaded device to prohibit the towing cable to exit from the hook) were also modified during the Finnish service.4)

Finnish T-34s had always two rotating periscopes on turret roof. If needed after the capture they were added and then usually the Finnish model of the periscope top armour cover was used.5) Ps 231-1, -2, -3 and –6 were Model 1940s or Model 1941s with a low turret.6) Ps 231-4 was a preproduction tank of Model 1942 from Zavod No 183 in Nizhni Tagil [NOTICE: Most of the western authors refer this model with hexagonal high turret as Model 1943, but that is not true. Besides that this one tanks was captured already in April 1942, it has been clearly stated as a Model 1942 in the most official and accurate book on Soviet tanks, the secret ”for duty use only” Baraksin – Bakh –Vygodskiy book.]7) Ps 231-5 and –7 were Model 1943s with hexagonal turret and commander’s cupola.8) Each of the three hexagonal Model 1942 and 1943 turrets different in regard to the manufacturing style and details.9) Ps 231-5…-7 were bought from Germany and they arrived in Finland on 2nd July 1944.

I have listed some detail differences between the Finnish tanks here. The notes refer to the vehicles during their active days, not the present condition in museum or other collections:Nose fillet: Round in all tanks except Ps 231-5, which was a very late production Model 1943 tank having a sharp nose (like a T-34-85).Rivets in lower edge of the glacis plate: Only in Ps 231-2 and –3.Towing lugs or hooks: Only Ps 231-3 had the early style towing lugs (two plates with a gap between them for towing cable), the rest had anchor style hooks.Fixing of towing lug and hooks to glacis plate: Rivets + welding in Ps 231-1…-4 and only welding in Ps 231-5…-6.Driver’s hatch: Ps 231-1, -2 and –3 had the early style hatch and the rest had the newer one with two flap-covered periscopes.Cooling air intake grilles on sides: Vertical strips on Ps 231-1…-4, the rest had horizontal strips (newer model).Gearbox access hatch: Rectangular in Ps 231-1…-3, the rest had a round one.Hull rear fillet between upper and lower rear plate: Round fillet on Ps 231-1…-3, the rest had a normal straigth plate joint.Low turret: Ps 231-1, -2 and –3 had a welded low turret but Ps 231-6 had a cast low turret.Turret hatches in low turrets: Ps 231-1 and –2 have a normal flat hatch. Ps 231-3 had a round plate to cover the hole for hatch-mounted periscope, which was mounted in early production, however not in this tank. Ps 231-6 had a hatch with a slightly raised mid part.Turret rear wall in welded low turrets: Ps 231-2 had the STZ style flat rear wall. Ps 231-1 had a rear wall plate with six bolts and Ps 231-3 with four bolts. Rotating periscope top armour covers in turret:

During the Finnish service Ps 231-1, -3, and -5 had two periscopes with Finnish style top covers. Ps 231-2 had after the capture in autumn 1941 two openable periscope covers but after summer 1942 two Finnish model covers. Ps 231-4 and –6 had two conical periscope top covers. Finally, Ps 231-7 had a conical cover on the left side and a Finnish model cover on the right side.SPECIAL NOTES:Ps 231-1 was propably made at Zavod No183 in Nizhni Tagil and not at HPZ as stated in my book. It had the pepper pot muzzle brake added in Finland in the repair after the capture. Nowadays on exhibition at Parola tank museum.Ps 231-2 was the first captured T-34 of the Finnish army. Nowadays at Karkialampi garrison area in Mikkeli.Ps 231-3 is in manufacturing schedule the oldest T-34 in Finland having many early features. Nowadays at Kontioranta garrison area near Joensuu.Ps 231-4 had four extra periscopes in a style of KV-1 Model 1942 added onto the turret edges in the first repair after the capture. Also, the air outlet grille was divided in only four parts by steel strips in this tank (Finnish modification). New stronger hinges on upper hull rear plate were made after the war. Ventilator dome with 6 openings, final drive housings with sharp edges etc were distinctive features for this preproduction tank. Nowadays waiting for restoration at Parola tank museum storage area.Ps 231-5 had bullet splash strips on hull around the turret turret and hand holds in a normal style of Zavod No 112 tanks. It also had a roughly 30 cm x 30 cm plate welded on the glacis plate in Germany to close the hit hole. Destroyed as a target after the war.Ps 231-6 had bullet splash strips on hull around the turret and hand holds in a normal style of Zavod No 112 tanks. Destroyed as a target after the war.Ps 231-7 Nowadays on exhibition at Parola tank museum.Ps 231-8 and Ps 231–9 which were captured in August 1944 were never taken into use and were used as spares. They both were Model 1942s.

You may wish to personalise a T34 or two so the above info would be cool to use.

Helen

Offline janner

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Start of My Winter & Continuation War Project
« Reply #129 on: March 26, 2008, 07:22:23 PM »
Quote from: "Helen Bachaus"

Hi Stephen,

Great work on the officer. 8)

What colours did you use and are you using Vellejo?

I've my first lot based ready for undercoat.

I'm currently working on transport for the Finns. I'm using the interwar trucks/bus from FOA plus some Gaz. What colours do you recommend for the interwar trucks and bus. I'm leaving the Gaz trucks as their original colour from Russia.

Oh, do you have a colour for the Finnish T26s used in the Winter War? I'm trying to decypher the colour in the books I've.

Pics soon.

Helen
Edit: Doh, I can't spell


Hi Helen,

I use GW paints but mostly mix to reflect the variety of grey tones you see in period photos. I'd keep the Gaz in Russian Green for early Continuation War but many were repainted in Finnish Camo over the white paint following Winter '41 - '42 - otherwise I have no data on trucks.

This should help for the Vickers/T26E (note the comment about turret stripes: http://www.andreaslarka.net/ps161007/ps161007.html

Regards,

Stephen

Offline Helen

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Start of My Winter & Continuation War Project
« Reply #130 on: March 26, 2008, 07:57:10 PM »
Quote from: "janner"
Quote from: "Helen Bachaus"

Hi Stephen,

Great work on the officer. 8)

What colours did you use and are you using Vellejo?

I've my first lot based ready for undercoat.

I'm currently working on transport for the Finns. I'm using the interwar trucks/bus from FOA plus some Gaz. What colours do you recommend for the interwar trucks and bus. I'm leaving the Gaz trucks as their original colour from Russia.

Oh, do you have a colour for the Finnish T26s used in the Winter War? I'm trying to decypher the colour in the books I've.

Pics soon.

Helen
Edit: Doh, I can't spell


Hi Helen,

I use GW paints but mostly mix to reflect the variety of grey tones you see in period photos. I'd keep the Gaz in Russian Green for early Continuation War but many were repainted in Finnish Camo over the white paint following Winter '41 - '42 - otherwise I have no data on trucks.

This should help for the Vickers/T26E (note the comment about turret stripes: http://www.andreaslarka.net/ps161007/ps161007.html

Regards,

Stephen


Thanks Stephen 8)

Helen

Offline janner

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Re: Start of My Winter & Continuation War Project
« Reply #131 on: May 11, 2008, 09:10:49 AM »
Here Chieftain's new 1/56th T26S dressed up to represent part of the Finnish Armoured Division circa 1944.

Note that is carries the Hitaasti which predated the swastika and was carried by all Finnish AFVs (in black) and aircraft (in blue). Sorry if that is obvious to many - I ran this past the Prof first and it was felt that it could be displayed if that was made clear.





It'll fit in nicely with the new late Continuation War/Lapland War List about to be released in the RoE Eastern Front Book.

Regards,


Offline Helen

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Re: Start of My Winter & Continuation War Project
« Reply #132 on: May 11, 2008, 10:19:12 AM »
Here Chieftain's new 1/56th T26S dressed up to represent part of the Finnish Armoured Division circa 1944.

Note that is carries the Hitaasti which predated the swastika and was carried by all Finnish AFVs (in black) and aircraft (in blue). Sorry if that is obvious to many - I ran this past the Prof first and it was felt that it could be displayed if that was made clear.

It'll fit in nicely with the new late Continuation War/Lapland War List about to be released in the RoE Eastern Front Book.

Regards,

Hi Stephen,

I love the T26s you have done. I'd like to see this model in resin as it fits my purpose.

Did you follow the Battlefront guide to the three colour tone? If not may I ask what colours you use. My first lot of Finns should be up on this page at the end of next week - God Willing!

Thanks again for showing your T26s to us folks.


Offline janner

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Re: Start of My Winter & Continuation War Project
« Reply #133 on: May 11, 2008, 05:11:34 PM »
Hi Stephen,

I love the T26s you have done. I'd like to see this model in resin as it fits my purpose.

Did you follow the Battlefront guide to the three colour tone? If not may I ask what colours you use. My first lot of Finns should be up on this page at the end of next week - God Willing!

Thanks again for showing your T26s to us folks.

I used Andreas' site: http://www.andreaslarka.net/

I mixed all the colours using GW paints but I think my green might be a tadge light.

Regards,

Stephen

Offline Helen

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Re: Start of My Winter & Continuation War Project
« Reply #134 on: May 19, 2008, 05:38:31 AM »
Hi Guys,

I'm pleased to show the first of my Winter War Finns from BAM. I do just need to add a little white in the centre of the enlisted ranks national cap badge. The officers national cap badge is a little different.

More to follow this later this week.

 

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