Ambush

[pixelgeek]

What is the general opinion of Ambush?

Peabody and I were playing today and his three man Threshold team all had Ambush. Meaning that when they advanced they were taking, when not hiding it/behind cover, three shots from the team before they could get into range to charge.

This seems like a really powerful skill. Aside from cover and terrain is there any way to limit the impact of this skill?

[PushStudios]

Ambush is pretty powerful, best thing you can do is either set up terrain so that they can't easily draw line of sight or skew the game so that they have to come at you.

Conversely, Alert and Ambush only grant you one shot per turn, so just throw tons of enemies at them and swarm them.

My friends and I have a House Rule that you are not allowed to sit still more then one turn in a row, at least one Model must do something each turn.

[Uncle Mike]

Ambush is a pretty helpful skill...that said it still cost Mr.Peabody +1 BP each model that has the Skill. That's 3 extra BP for you to play with, or more importantly that's 3 Skills that haven't been spent to make his  models more choppy or shooty. I find that since it's his Threshold list you will always know what to expect...try different combos of Lurkers to get around it. Hybrids may increase your chances...or Fire Daemon? I'd use Dodge or Duck, possibly Heroic to move around a little more freely on the turn you need it. And let's not forget Long Range rifles and .30 cals.

That's how I'd stick it to Mr. Peabody! 

[pixelgeek]

Ambush is a pretty helpful skill...that said it still cost Mr.Peabody +1 BP each model that has the Skill.

Not if he uses his free skills to purchase them. You can start your Threshold party out all with Ambush. He is still out the skill points but he can start his party all with Ambush. That seems really powerful to me and if at 15pts the Lurker player needs to tailor their party specifically to deal with this then I would suggest that it might be too powerful for a skill that has no prerequisite.

His party was only 17BP so I don't know how much I am able to flood his party. I had five figures in my Lurker band and every turn Peabody was able to shoot as well as advance with all his party.

best thing you can do is either set up terrain so that they can't easily draw line of sight

Scenarios specifically mention setting up terrain acceptable to both players so why would a player with Ambush let you set up terrain to limit his fire lanes?

And if I need to set terrain to specifically counter a combo like this is that not an indication that perhaps there is a problem?

Might I suggest that Ambush be rewritten to have a requirement so that it can't be taken initially and that it takes a bit more time for a player to give it to his entire party? Its one thing to have one member of a party with it but when there are three its really not a lot of fun to play against.

It also seems a bit of a "no brainer" to take. Its very powerful and I can't see any set of initial skills that is quite as good as giving all your Threshold party members Ambush

[Commander Vyper]

Having not played the game (yet) but thinking about balanced attributes, couldn't you limit this to only one member of the party?

These are investigators from various backgrounds not a cover ops team surely!

[LidlessEye]

Base Agents and Civilians with Ambush as their free skill only hit on a 5+ though, so it's not like they're crack shot killing machines.  Unless of course your opponent is one of those irritating types that never rolls less than a 5!

That said, do you think setting a prerequisite of 4+ Dex for Ambush would mitigate the issue?  I don't really see any other skill that would lead in to it.

[jnr]

Alert is a advanced rule, if you not happy dont use.
For my own use you need to realy think how you set up your lurkers, after all lurker can pick the same skills as the agents, give a lurker a rifle, lighting reflex and lower his dex and your on the same footing as agents.

[Uncle Mike]

Some good points to consider...any more thoughts?

I never thought too much of it really...I usually take Heroic or a Dex. decrease for my free Threshold Skills. I think they are way better...and way tougher to get around. Sounds as though you have a rather cagey opponent thou...failing any 'in game' solution to his smartness you could try more direct methods...small amounts of crushed glass in his chips or a little rat poison in his coffee should slow him down.

*Obviously I Am Kidding*

[jnr]

Don't forget you can't use a rifle with alert as it is a ready weapon(p46)  even if you take the skill Lighting Fast ( dont need use ready action) you still can't use a rifle, this is not in rule book but has been comfirmed by uncle mike in a e.mail to me.

[D@rth J@ymZ]

There are many ways that I have found to counter a list with the Ambush skill:
* stay out of the model's 10" Ambush range (duh)
* As noted by PushStudios: use more low point Lurker models, like Cultists, advance several of them towards Threshold Agent/Character with Ambush, "force" them to use the Ambush skill then overwhelm them with shear numbers. 
* make use of available cover to avoid a clear line of sight (as previously noted)
* use Duck, Dodge and Lurkers with Flight to get a save
* Increase the CON of your Lurkers or equip them with Armour (light or heavy)

That being said, I prefer the tactic mentioned by PushStudios: swarm the enemy with numbers.  Ambush only grants one shot per turn, so once it has been used, 'send in the cavalry'

I've used 1-2 basic Cultists to 'convince' a Threshold player to use his ambush skill, then sent in the rest of the nearby Lurkers to swarm him once the Ambush skill has been used for the turn.

[Dolmot]

Don't forget
--
this is not in rule book

Err...how could I forget something I haven't been told in the first place? 

(Currently playing against an ambushing, lightning fast character with dynamite, lucky hat and a boatload of other stuff.)

[pixelgeek]

Alert is a advanced rule, if you not happy dont use.

The Alert rule isn't the problem.

That said, do you think setting a prerequisite of 4+ Dex for Ambush would mitigate the issue?  I don't really see any other skill that would lead in to it.

This is what I was thinking actually. It stops gamers from taking it as a free skill and it dramatically slows down the acquisition of it across the party.

I've used 1-2 basic Cultists to 'convince' a Threshold player to use his ambush skill, then sent in the rest of the nearby Lurkers to swarm him once the Ambush skill has been used for the turn.

A good suggestion but not very useful at 15 - 18pts I suspect. If your party only has four or five Lurkers its not always possible or recommended to swarm your opponent

* stay out of the model's 10" Ambush range (duh)

Not possible in some scenarios. If I have to stop the Threshold player from retrieving artefacts then I have no choice but to go  within 10".

Most games also require you to remove all the opponents figures so unless I load up with rifles I have little choice than to get into close combat as well.

[D@rth J@ymZ]

What type/make-up of Threshold list are you playing against ?  There are quite a few Lurker list options within 15-18 pts that may be useful (depending on the scenario, obviously)

[jnr]

May have wrote it out better thats the trouble of being Dyslexic.
I was told in a e.mail you can't use a rifle  on alert with the  Lighting Fast skill.
Sounds like a good idea lighting fast with dynomite, but don't forget alert is for shooting.
Give 2 cultist with heavy armour vest and up the con by one then you should be able to move in to cc.

[pixelgeek]

What type/make-up of Threshold list are you playing against ?  There are quite a few Lurker list options within 15-18 pts that may be useful (depending on the scenario, obviously)

If I have to buy specific models to counter a skill purchase then that skill purchase is broken IMO.

At 18pts a player can, if they want, give their entire team Ambush and DEX increases. Meaning that they can all be shooting at 4+.