Appeal of "Very" Civil War games

[leadfool]

I didn't go into the Very American civil war because of the uniforms.  I actually got excited about the politics and history,  The fact that no one can critize your uniform, is just a bonus.

The more I read about 1933/34 at least in California politics, it seems incredible that some kind of war did not break out. 

[commissarmoody]

I didn't go into the Very American civil war because of the uniforms.  I actually got excited about the politics and history,  The fact that no one can critize your uniform, is just a bonus.

The more I read about 1933/34 at least in California politics, it seems incredible that some kind of war did not break out. 

You could say the same thing about now 

[answer_is_42]

The thing is, it is rather easy indeed to criticise the uniforms/equipment in such a conflict! You're setting your game in a historical period, so there will be some historical uniforms involved. This includes irregular units - we can look into what would have been available to the combatants at the time, whether they would have had access to certain vehicles or arms for example.
 
Whilst Hammer's Cricket team is very cool and fun, it obviously lends nothing to history whatsoever, and to set it in any form of historical context with any seriousness is blatantly absurd; they're wearing inaccurate uniforms!

 

[Hammers]

they're wearing inaccurate uniforms!

 

No, they aren't.

[answer_is_42]

No, they aren't.

Yes, they are.

[commissarmoody]

We have a disagreement! Its Thunder Dome time! Two men inter! One man leaves! 

[Hammers]

Yes, they are.

No they aren't.

[Arlequín]

My opinion of it is a mixed one. It seems to me that the BCW is sort of the Spanish Civil War transplanted a few hundred miles to the north.

I'll admit I have described it in the past as 'SCW with worse weather'.    It is quite true, it did start out as that, but it's taken a direction of its own as well and the 'history' of it now shows little comparison to what it was based on. It probably has more in common now with the original English Civil War (in terms of the factions within factions) than it does with the SCW. Comparisons will be drawn, but this will be mainly due to them both existing in the same historical time-frame and environment, with the same 'superpowers' dabbling at the fringes. The big difference is that there is no foreign presence like the Condor Legion or the C.T.V.  

I must own that I find the real Spanish version much more interesting than its made-up British counterpart... I can't see that ever happening with BCW. It just doesn't appeal. It doesn't elicit an emotional response from me in quite the same way as scenarios based on real situations do. There is too much that is cool that actually really happened to distract me before I will be interested in out-and-out hypotheticals (as opposed to fictional scenarios of real wars, which for some reason I do enjoy).   

I agree, I got sucked into the SCW a long while back and have grabbed hold of any book that has appeared related to this (Want to know how the war effected cross-dressers and homosexuals? I'll look it up for you!), including a number of Spanish ones that I really struggle to read as I speak Spanish better than I read it (and I wouldn't class myself as being bilingual by a long shot). I would happily game SCW in its real context and should I get round to actually buying the figures etc to do this, they'll be presented as 'real' SCW figures etc. I do tend to get a bit miffed when folk describe it as a 'war by proxy' or a 'testing ground for WW2' as it was none of these when you do more than just scratch the surface.

However you begin to wonder the what-if's of the SCW; say if France hadn't closed the border and shut off supply when they did, or even the the more improbable; what if other powers (besides the USSR) had actively supported the Republic in the same way as Germany and Italy did? From a gaming perspective this also feeds off the lack of variety of vehicles available to the respective protagonists etc. The result of this being that you develop a desire to expand the equipment and forces historically available.

With VBCW on the other hand, you've got some very interesting stuff that never actually saw battle and the 30's British army was unlike even the BEF of 1940 in many respects. There were more units who were motorcycle equipped, there were the Vickers Medium Tank units, along with some tank types which never saw production (i.e. the Independent). If you add into the mix irregular units with improvised equipment, then it's not hard to see the appeal even if it doesn't grab you yourself.    

Certainly it is true that a lot of really cool stuff actually happened, but in relation to WW2 this has been done to death, with the exception perhaps of the early part of the war (which seems unpopular for some reason). You could argue though that these don't reflect any sort of reality, in that the Germans on the tabletop are not subject to the same restrictions and limitations as their real-life counterparts were (numbers, ammo, equipment etc). I'd envisage most gamers with German forces would be packing their toys up before the game got going, mumbling about unfairness and cheating etc, if they had the same stresses and frictions that their real life counterparts faced.

The important thing is, as you say, 'It just doesn't appeal', which is true for all of us, otherwise our lead mountains would be colossal. Despite contributing to the fiction of the period, I can't say it's my cup of tea either. I'd prefer a proper war, say an earlier WW2 (based on the re-militarisation of the Rhineland or something). I'm also looking for something with more depth, I've obviously got a deep desire to escape from something and a need for control in my life, as I'm in the process of creating my own fictional setting for an SCW type conflict (with even better weather), that will allow me to field (within reason) whatever I wish within this setting. I was inspired by Tony Bath's Hyborian campaign many years ago and wanted something similar myself (forget your armies, I play with nations mwahahah) but real wars were too big (even the SCW is immense in its scope), or too limited (e.g. Chaco War), so making my own was the way to go.

However even a fictional setting has resulted in hours of real historical research (that shows little sign of ending any time soon) to see what was going on in similar countries and what stuff was exported by the big players etc. This has also been the case with some of the VBCW guys, some of whom have painstakingly (even obsessively) researched their local area to provide a back drop to their games. It also seems to be the case with the VACW crowd. There are many who don't do this and have been inspired by the figures, or who just want a bit of surreality in comparison to their normal gaming fare. There's room for all.  

Apologies for running off at the keyboard there folks...  

[answer_is_42]

No they aren't.

Yes, they are.

[Arlequín]

No they aren't.

Yes, they are.

You two... report to my room after class... 

[former user]

 there will be never be any shortage of people to tell you that that you have got it all entirely wrong and they know better. 
[/quote]
indeed
like - the termite mound is the wrong colour 

[carlos marighela]

Must admit the the Fantasy Civil war scene has largely left me unmoved. I admire the creativity of some of its contributors, that cricket team is one of the coolest things I've ever seen and incredibly witty but the typical scenarios and their departure from anything remotely likely rather kills it for me.  

If I want cool home made armoured vehicles, there's the very real 1930 and 1932 revolutions in Brazil or the very real civil war in Spain if it comes to that. If I want a setting for Vickers Medium tanks, there's the crisis over the Italian invasion of Ethiopia, to provide me with a vaguely likely prospect and then you get to field cool looking Italian Askari.

Then there's the issue of civil wars. On the whole they tend to be a damn sight more unpleasant, if pleasant can be considered appropriate in context, than wars fought against external foes. can't bear the thought of putting Mosleyites on a table.

Like BoB, it has been a boon for the historical gamer though. Look at all the nice new toys it has produced. Still I'm not entirely adverse to fantasy, I've long wanted to do a Plan Red war between Britain and the US, if only to justify fielding the the Experimental Mechanised Force and blitzing the Yanks with Vickers Mediums and Carden Lloyds.

By the by, motorcycles saw quite a lot of service in the UK in 1940. There was a least one entire battalion so equipped with the BEF.

[Hammers]

Yes, they are.

No, they are not!

[Hammers]

You two... report to my room after class... 

Yes, Mrs Hale. Sorry Mr. Hale.

[eastern barbarian]

Carlos- Mosleyites on the table are great, I take great joy in shooting them  in every game