How would you do weird war II poles?

[Daeothar]

Modellingwise, I just burned out a mind bulb; (and I don't think it was mentioned before), if you're not afraid of a bit of cutting and puttying over (and a sizeable hole in your funds I might add), some creative use of GW's Vostroyans might be something to consider. They're suitably Cossacky and even their (oversized GW) guns are archaic looking enough to be useful.

If you're going for a far out there looking army these might be something to consider, but they're pretty far away from 'normal' WW2 troops as far as their looks are concerned.

Just a though...

[leadfool]

There were 2 separate "Warsaw" uprisings, the first from the Jewish Ghetto in '43, and the second from the Poles in 44.  It was the latter that the Russians waited until the battle was over until they moved into Warsaw.  The Soviets were more then willing to let the Poles do the fighting.

The Golum idea is great.  The original idea of the Golum was from the ghetto of Praque.  My VSF forces have some Golum themed walkers, ie my Issen Golum with its Putz Biks, The Iron Golum with its Penis Gun,----you have to see the model.

Remember on the forehead of the Golum is the hebrew word Emet, which means truth.  The Golum was destroyed when the first letter (aleph) was erased from its forehead.  The remaining word, Met, is death in hebrew.  
For game purposes, the Golum should be almost invinvcible, except for that one weakness,  A forehead Critical hit.  

[Korwin Miniatures]

Golum and Golem, little nastie and big brut 
To the topic: Poles were very catholic at that time. (Still are) How about intervention of Mary ("Queen of Poland", mother of Jesus) against Germans. Or some angels.
If any village witch summoned any forest or water spirits (dziewozony, rusalki, diably, kulawce, upiory, topielice, skrzaty, poludnice) then her neighbours would be firs to kill her.   

[Commander Vyper]

I suggest you take a look at here for some polish inspiration:

"Anatoli's project thread" on Secrets of the Third Reich. 

http://secretsofthethirdreich.com/forums/index.php?topic=689.0

Around page 40 ish... mybe earlier.

[Capt. E.W. Brimmage]

There were 2 separate "Warsaw" uprisings, the first from the Jewish Ghetto in '43, and the second from the Poles in 44.  It was the latter that the Russians waited until the battle was over until they moved into Warsaw.  The Soviets were more then willing to let the Poles do the fighting.

It wasn't so much the fighting but the dying the Soviets wanted the resistance to do, so they wouldn't cause trouble for the next set of occupiers.

[Anatoli]

Hi just found this thread, like Commander Vyper has pointed out I'm doing Weird WW2 Polish platoons for SoTR myself. One is based upon the Polish forces in the West and one is based on the resistance "Armia Krajowa" themed around Warsaw Uprising.

Reading this thread I feel like I have to explain things a little which hopefully will lend some help and understanding (for more understanding of Polish history and during WW2 in particular I must recommend Norman Davies: "Gods Playground vol1 & 2".

Poles are Catholic, the Polish army as well as the Polish resistance included people of Jewish beliefs into their ranks without problem. Jews made up a large chunk of the Polish population since way back when it was decided that all religions should be tolerated in Poland, making the country a safe haven for jews among others in a time when most of Europe was caught up in religious wars and persecution. Warsaw also became pretty much the "jewish capital of the world" up until WW2.

There were two Warsaw uprisings, due to Soviet propaganda these are often mixed up and often the Warsaw Ghetto 1943 uprising takes the spotlight, while being a heroic fight on its own it had not the epic proportion of the Warsaw uprising which was supposed to spark a nationwide uprising along the lines of the "olden days" of partitioned Poland - in those 123 years there were numerous uprisings roughly once per generation. The Warsaw uprising was at the start meant to take place out in the countryside so most weapons were smuggled out of the city and many units were stationed outside of it once the decision to start the uprising within the city in order to liberate it / do the greater share of the liberation before the Soviets arrived. The Soviets encouraged the plans and they were so close that it was estimated that they would arrive within a few days to help out. That did not happen, and the fighting lasted for 63 days, followed by a methodical destruction of the city block by block while the russkies camped on the opposite side of the river rolling their thumbs for weeks.

Poland has always been a nation using horses to great extent in order to defend its long borders, during the 16th and 17th century small Polish armies containing the Winged Hussar knights ruled the battlefield, successfully defending a crumbling nation from numerous invasions of Swedes, Tatars and a Ukrainian uprising within a few years - making Poland become drained of population, resources and money eventually paving the way for the partition. So the Polish army always had a soft spot for cavalry and the romantic memories of the winged hussars, followed by Napoleons Polish lancers. During WW2 the Cavalry was given anti tank rifles, towed anti tank cannons and acted as "dragoon" - they were also the elite units of the army, better trained and armed than regular army. They were supported by tankettes mainly armed with heavy machineguns. Later on the tradition of the cavalry and the Winged Hussars in particular was carried over to the 1st Polish armored battalion which used the winged hussar helmet and wing as their insignia. For weird WW2 purposes it would be great to feature cavalry with gasmasks on both rider and the horse - I guess it could be done with some converting and use of green stuff. I just use the Warlord Games Polish cavalry as they are but added an anti tank rifle to one of the riders back.

As for mythological creatures and weird stuff, the idea of ghosts from the battle of Tannenberg is actually quite clever. You could also have a character be the reincarnation of either king Jan Sobieski or Jozef Pilsudski (founding father of the 2nd Polish republic). Or why not the reincarnation of national hero Tadeusz Kosciusko (also a hero of the American War of Independence along with Kazimierz Pulaski).

The Golem is a Jewish creation and is actually featured as part of the Jewish partisan section of the SoTR expansion "Doomsday". So that might not be the best choice of representing something purely Polish if that is your intention. I don't see why a unit of Polish troops wouldn't join up with a rabbi summoning such a creature though.

The spirit of the Poles was always to fight for the freedom of their country, they preferred to join foreign armies and keep fighting than completely surrender, Napoleons Polish Legions are a prime example. But during WW2 the Polish army who managed to break out of the country joined up with France, then Britain, a chunk of Poles in Soviet PoW camps were also formed into a Polish army under Soviet command. This should be reflected in the rules somehow.

Models, if you want to be "realistic" then the Poles used the exact same gear as the British and the Soviets. I prefer mine to look 1939 Polish army since I'm a sucker for those "Rogatywka" caps and hatsm and the early war uniform in general. So I mainly use Warlord Games Polish army models, mixed up with Weird options from various sources such as Artizan Design, West Wind, AT43 etc. But the other thing is that you get a unique look and instantly recognizable “Polish” miniatures instead of just collecting Brits and calling them “Polish”.

I made a "fan made" Polish orders of battle rulebook for Secrets of the Third Reich if you want to see how I figured the Poles of a Weird WW2 universe would look and function. It has been downloaded over 500 times from the SoTR forum so far.
You can check it out and download it for free here http://secretsofthethirdreich.com/forums/index.php?topic=2595.0
Download button is in the at the bottom of the bost in the signature.

Other links of interest:

"Polish special" on my blog http://anatolisgameroom.blogspot.com/2010/09/september-1st-1939-polish-special.html

Cromwell tanks with Polish 1939 pattern camo: http://anatolisgameroom.blogspot.com/2010/10/2nd-cromwell-with-polish-1939-camo.html

Tankettes from Warlord Games : http://anatolisgameroom.blogspot.com/2010/10/polish-tks-tankette-conversion.html

End of my long rant, hope you found something that was helpful in what I said and good luck with your project. Just make sure you post pictures once you start painting models  

[leadfool]

I just thought of something that would be neat but I am not sure how you could do it.  What if you were to mount a pair of wings on to a Tankette.  AKA Polish winged tankette hussars!

I know the wing would defeat the advantage of the tankette being able to hide, but the appearance would inspire the troops and maybe scare the enemy. 

Either that or make the tankette a glider. 

[Blackwolf]

Nice post Anatoli

[Jakar Nilson]

I just thought of something that would be neat but I am not sure how you could do it.  What if you were to mount a pair of wings on to a Tankette.  AKA Polish winged tankette hussars!

I keep wanting to do that to a 15mm walker, having a pair of 28mm wings nearby...

[6milPhil]

Years ago, I'd actually built a Polish walker, basing the look on the TK & TKS tankettes. It was meant to be a prototype, and the bulky hull was overarmoured so it could simulate future armaments. It was meant to go into production in late 1940, but the Germans invaded. Now, it's only good for rooting out partisans...

Very interesting idea there. The TKS is one of my all time faves and you've captured it's essence. Bolt Action make a top notch version of them, even if they're a tad pricey for such a tiny model.



Anatoli, top post mate.

[syr8766]

These are all really awesome ideas! Many thanks, especially for the insights into Polish history (I tend to focus on the Jewish aspects as, well, I'm Jewish and that's my area of expertise, specifically the Jewish experience in the so-called "Pale of Settlement"). It's nice to get some more background in general.

Not sure when I'm going to get around to this project (I've got some partisans to work on, and eventually probably have to do some Axis to fight against, though that kind of makes me clammy), but I'm looking forward to pursuing this project!

[Helen]

Hi Guys,

Not sure if you guys have seen these links below:

http://derela.republika.pl/armcarpl.htm

http://www.1939.pl/index.html

The second link will translate quite easy with google if you are having issues.

Loads of nice material in both links.

Cheers,

Helen

[carlos marighela]

To the best of my knowledge Poland was the only country to have had a pogrom after the Second World War. It's pretty well documented, Leo Cooper devoted an entire book to it, so I have to say the idea of borrowing bits of Jewish culture seems a bit far fetched and dare I say it, in dubious taste.

This weird war thing isn't really my scene but I think the Polish Hussar connection seems to be the best suggestion. Stick a Polish TKS light tank on a pair of legs and whack some hussar wings onto it. That may be a little obscure for some but paint it in a chequerboard pattern of red and white and you never know.

Of course as weird war distinctions seems to invaribaly play to some sort of comic book sterotype, it might be useful to bear your audience in mind. For American gamers that might involve Polish jokes, perhaps along the lines of the late Ronald Reagan's ill advised quip. For residents of much of the UK it might involve an association with fly by night tradesmen. For Scots it may involve their inlaws from Inverness.  

[Jakar Nilson]

How could I forget? Blackhawk, of course! Sometimes, he's American, sometimes he's Polish, but having a team of hotshot pilots fighting on the side of Liberty would be a great asset to any Polish force!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackhawk_%28comics%29