Chinese Warlords

[Red Sveta]

I've painted up a pack  of coppelstone Chinese Warlord figures after buying them months ago along with the Osprey book. I would like to build a force for T&T and Red Actions but although the Osprey book gives uniform info there is no real information about battles, campaigns or tactics. In other words senario ideas. I've seen photos of the games of Cinese v Bolsheviks, but did they? I've googled but can not find anything on battles or campaigns. Can any one suggest a book or site I've missed?

[Wirelizard]

I get the strong impression it was mostly warlord vs warlord fighting, it was a civil war after all. That said, you could throw in Bolshevik Russians, possibly White Russians, or the ever-popular White (Mad) Baron and his Mongolians.

[Red Sveta]

I do mean warlord v warlord from about 1916 onwards mainly in the 1920's though. I have the Mad Baron book that is a good start but i was looking for info on campaigns of the civil war really.

[Mark Plant]

I am unaware that the Chinese ever fought the Red Army.

There was some scope for it, since the Red Army crossed the Chinese border quite a few times chasing Whites, but the Chinese probably felt that that they were on a hiding to nothing.

White Russians are a more historical opponent, since several emigre units took up positions inside Chinese territory. For example Annenkov's Semirechensk Cossacks in Sinkiang.

[Hammers]

I think you are wrong there, or perhaps you have a different definition of BoB activities.

White Russians together with Soviets fought against the Hui (muslim) warlord Ma Zhongying in 1934. The Swedish cartographer and explorer Sven Hedin has made a lengthy first hand account of it. An interesting read.


There is a brief account of the operation on Wikipedia:  Soviet invasion of Xinjiang

[Westfalia Chris]

I recently read Edward L. Dryer's "China at War. 1901-1949", which covers the period from the last Manchu reform attempts to the end of the civil war.

Quite exhaustive, and as far as I can assess it, accurate - a bit dry at times (but not unduly so) and obviously more focused on the strategic level, it still delves into detail when appropriate, and if you pay proper attention to keeping the names apart, it depicts the warlord era and the underlying social, political and military tensions quite vividly. Furthermore, the author is ready to identify shortcomings of his work and the previous literature he used for reference (as in the early 1990s, there seemed to be little academic work on the subject beyond that written in the actual civil war years and up to ca. 1970, often apologetic or too narrowly-focused).

[Mark Plant]

Hammers: how peculiar! I knew Xiajiang had a, erm, confused history but I wasn't up with all that : Whites, Reds, Warlords, Islamic Republics, Kirghiz, Mongols, Nationalists at the same time.

I have sitting on my wish list at Amazon the book "Eurasian Crossroads: A History of Xinjiang". I really should buy it.

(The original request was for the 1920's though. Armies for the RCW will be a stretch for the 1930s. What did the Whites wear then?)

[cuprum]

There is a Russian Wiki is such a information on the Sino-Soviet conflict in the Chinese Eastern Railway. Alas, the language is Russian, I recommend to use the computer transfer.

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%84%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BA%D1%82_%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%9A%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE-%D0%92%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%87%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D0%B4%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%B5

[Red Sveta]

Thats very interesting Cuprum thanks. It also give me the incentive to get more Chinese figures, I can use them against my Bolsheviks too.

[Hammers]

Hammers: how peculiar! I knew Xiajiang had a, erm, confused history but I wasn't up with all that : Whites, Reds, Warlords, Islamic Republics, Kirghiz, Mongols, Nationalists at the same time.

I have sitting on my wish list at Amazon the book "Eurasian Crossroads: A History of Xinjiang". I really should buy it.

(The original request was for the 1920's though. Armies for the RCW will be a stretch for the 1930s. What did the Whites wear then?)

I recommend 'The Flight of the Great Horse' by Sven Hedin, if you can find it. Hedin was published in several languages as he was one of the last people accredited with charting the white spots of Central Asia.

As for uniform I wager the Whites had Chinese gear and uniform, but that is just, you know, my 'conjecture'. Both the Reds and the Whites were fighting for the Chinese Central government (Koumintang) and Whites lived in more or less naturalized communities in China. I think Hedin wrote something about the Soviet supplying weapons, but that may just have been the heavy gear. I know for certain he mentions Soviet air raids.