Does anyone have reliable sources for the British in Archangel?

[Red Orc]

There is a story in my family (that I've repeated a couple of times here) that my great uncle was in Archangel with the Black Watch (2nd battalion I believe, because before Russia he was supposed to be in Mesopotamia) in 1918-19. However, I've never found any reliable info on the Black Watch even being involved in the Intervention at all. Does anyone have links to sites where for instance the units that made up the British forces are listed? Anything about British forces in Russia during the Intervention would be a help, honestly (just not that blinking Armoured Car column, you'd think they were the only Brits there...).

Thanks in advance chaps and chapesses.

[Mark Plant]

My understanding is that many men in the north were volunteers. The lack of Black Watch is not, therefore, proof he was not there.

I suggest you request his service record from the Army.

[Red Orc]

OK Mark, that sounds like a reasonable enough idea, cheers.

[Red Sveta]

There is mention of the Highland Light Infantry serving there in 1919. I dont know if these were the Black Watch though, the regimental history will say if there were or not. The troops servomg in north Russia prior to Sept 1919 were not volunteers, and a number of wel known regiments served there.

[Whiskyrat]

I suggest you request his service record from the Army.

Which may turn out to be as useful as a chocolate teapot.

I requested my Grandad's while he was still alive and it simply listed which army groups he had been attached to - not where he/they were posted.

The record didn't even show his attachment to US forces.

We were a little disappointed with the documented record of his sevice BUT I guess there was a war going on .... 

[sukhe_bator]

At War with the Bolsheviks: The Allied Intervention into Russia 1917-20, by Robert Jackson has excellent sections on the Northern Front. Its an excellent read.
http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/j/robert-jackson/at-war-with-bolsheviks.htm
I cannot recall if Jamie Bisher's work on Cossack Warlords of the Trans Siberian Railway covers that region? I know there were many tos and fros. Bisher's work is very complete. Others have baulked at the price, but it is an impressive and full piece of scholarship. If I were to have one book on the RCW, this would be it.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=t8sdihXN47wC&pg=PA207&lpg=PA207&dq=%22ataman+semenov%22%22jamie+bisher%22&source=bl&ots=1cvGXUPP_d&sig=OD2xbC7iaY80TcnxwlOTmRZij6Y&hl=en&ei=MnqTTIHtM8uTjAeL16DEBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBUQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22ataman%20semenov%22%22jamie%20bisher%22&f=false

[Mark Plant]

Jamie's book does not cover the north, just the region east of Lake Baikal, and then only the Cossack bits.

[AndyG]

Hi


Re Bischer's book its been republished in a cheaper paper back edition.

Naval and Military Press do a numer of reprints of memoirs and regimenetal histories covering British intervention in North Russia inc the account pf the British Commander. I've their reprint of the history of the Oxs and Bucks light inf in the great war which  mainly covers Mespot but has a few chapters & photos covering their time in North Russia in some detail.

I'm afraid I've only spotted the books while looking for general RCS/ BOB sources so I can't give you any specific recomendations but they should have what you are looking for.

[Red Orc]

Thanks everyone for your help. There are certainly some sources there that I can chase up, and maybe get a little closer to the truth behind the tall stories my grandad used to tell about his big brother, as well as giving me a frozen-north background for BoB games...

[Will Bailie]

There was a battalion of Royal Scots in Archangelsk - they were part of the multi-national force that fought the Bolsheviks at Tanga.  The North Russia campaign is quite amazing to read about - there seemed to be a competition to find the worst soldiers available and ship them there.  Even stranger is that, while the foreign powers were sending second and third rate soldiers, they were still better quality than either the Whites or Reds facing them!  Reading different sources about the Battle of Toulgas is informative - the American sources claim that American soldiers saved the day just as the British had muffed it, while the Brits claim that the Yanks were no good, but fortunately they had Tommy Atkins to protect them! 

The wikipedia page has some information about troops present in the North Russian campaign:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Russia_Campaign

If you do a search for Major-General Ironside (who was appointed to command British forces in North Russia), you will likely get some information.  He was quite a character!

I'm currently reading a book called "Intervention in Russia 1918-1920" by Miles Hudson.  I've just started - Hudson's father was part of the intervening force, and the research for the book includes information gleaned from interviews with participants in the intervention.  I've only just started into it, so can't comment on how good it is yet.

[commissarmoody]

There was a battalion of Royal Scots in Archangelsk - they were part of the multi-national force that fought the Bolsheviks at Tanga.  The North Russia campaign is quite amazing to read about - there seemed to be a competition to find the worst soldiers available and ship them there.  Even stranger is that, while the foreign powers were sending second and third rate soldiers, they were still better quality than either the Whites or Reds facing them!  Reading different sources about the Battle of Toulgas is informative - the American sources claim that American soldiers saved the day just as the British had muffed it, while the Brits claim that the Yanks were no good, but fortunately they had Tommy Atkins to protect them! 

Don't worry to much, from my time in the army any one that was not in your unit was a bunch of useless blockheads (using the PC version here)
I am sure all the forces had there own times were they shined and messed ever thing up.