ATZ vs Ambush Z-preference/opinions?

[Goosegog]

Hi

My first post will open with a question.

I'm going to start a zombie project in the nearish future, but have been debating which rules to use.

Now the club I attend use 'All Things Zombie' which I have played and enjoyed though cannot really recall the mechanics of the system that well. But I have been toying with the idea of purchasing 'Ambush Z' and giving them a try. Now I have played Ambush Alley which I like alot as a rule system so I have assumed that the zombie rules follow the same game mechanics. Is this correct? (ie zombies appear in hotspots like the insurgents in the regular rules)

My own personal thought is that ATZ seemed to be a bit slow at times (though that may have been because I didn't know the rules) and  Ambush Alley, for me, gives a quick moving fun game.

So has anybody played both systems or have their own preference and why?

I will also throw in a couple of other considerations-

1) I have a few other ideas floating around for future projects, earth over run by demons, aliens etc but set in a nearish future type of world. So can either set be re-worked/adapted to play games with something else than zombies?

2) Limiting expense re the above ie can Ambush Z be crossed over into Ambush Alley for example without having to buy 'other' rule sets to game different genre. So what I'm getting at which system offers the most diversity for adaptation?

Your thoughts please.

Regards     

[Dr. The Viking]

I prefer Ambush Z.

ATZ has a tendency to devolve into a gang vs. gang game with zombies in between. At least in my experience.

In Ambush you can have a good game without two gangs.. one player playing the zombies. And you're correct about the hot spots and mechanical similarities. 

[AKULA]

feel free to give my rules a try (they are on my blog, on the top right hand side)

AR:SE is only 2 sides of A4, and free to download - easy to play, bloody, and you can have a game with 500 zombies on the table and get a result.

 

[Goosegog]

Thorbjorn-now you mention it, I do recall an ATZ game when I spent more time avoiding fellow players survivor groups than zombies.

Akula-I will, look straight forward and fun. PS like the assault gun for VBCW.

[warrenss2]

I second the suggestion of AR:SE. Short, sweet, simple, fun as hell! And the unpredictability factor of who-goes-next puts a lot of the "panic" of fighting a massive zombie outbreak!!

I have also used the "Skank Rules" and have had great satisfaction with those as well. The authentic name of the rules is "Warlord 2085". Although a Post Apocalypse set of rules, I have used them for Zombie, Aliens vs. Predator, Pulp, Cthulhu and for the PA genre that they were originally meant for.
http://www.skankgame.com/Downloads.html

<Modify> - "Fear and Faith" rules are damn good too.
http://ganeshagames.blogspot.com/2009/06/fear-and-faith-pdf-available.html

I like the Skank rules the best because I'm more familiar with them and they can be used in a multitude of genres. But most of our zombie games have been with AR:SE since last year.

[Commander Vyper]

Matt's AR:SE with some surgical 'enhancements' for me too, if you want to see how it plays out take a look my Zed Thread, about seven games recorded on there, (and a few more planned in a week's time!).

The Commander

[Goosegog]

AR:SE it is then! I will get a copy and convince the chaps at the club to give them ago.

The mention of Songs and Blades Heroes has sparked an interest as well.

Regards

[warrenss2]

You won't go wrong with that decision. AR:SE is VERY good.

(No smart arse comments, Commander!!)

[Cosmotiger]

My observation is that the people who enjoy ATZ (and the THW games in general) are the ones who play the rules a lot and often, so that they really come to grips with the unusual rules mechanics. 

Which is not to say they are bad rules, just that they are different, and take an invstment of time to become automatic for players.   If players don't have the interest in doing that, I'd go with something less complex, like AR:SE.  (Which is what you're doing anyway, I guess). 

[dexter]

For your other project . Ambush Alley games are bringing out a monster supplement so there will be all sorts of beasties available soon. The other option could be Fear and Faith for your demon overrun world

[Muskie]

I was going to do this, I downloaded and bought a bunch of rules.  I didn't mind All Things Zed though if you leave semi trucks and what not off the board, the rules you need to learn get shorter.  I was considering making my own rules based around Kill Team (from GW, basically 40K light) and/or Necromunda.  I haven't made my mind up, my goal is to paint 100 zombies and then I can pretty much do whatever I want.  I think Ambush Alley was focused on 15mm whereas I really want to stick with 25/28mm due to availability of terrain and what have you.

I plan to check out the rules Akula recommended.  Like I said, I thought just using GW mechanics which lots of people know and adding a few rules of my own...

Cheers,

[Goosegog]

From what I'm reading about ATZ on these posts kind of fit in with my own observations of the game. Having played Ambush Alley, I found that much easier to pick up, so unconciously I was probably leaning towards Ambush Z.

My issue and reason for the question was to get an idea of other players prefrences before I make a purchase. Also (I would guess like everybody else out there), particularly playing at a club rules come and go like dust. Has I've said before AA I like so its stick with the devil you know, and I'm waiting for the re-vamp with Osprey, so my old PDF version will disappear. Now if a further supplement is on the way for Am-Z then that may fit the bill. (I must visit the website soon). 

I also looking for something that I can play at home, and even though I use 28mm figures a 4x4 table is easily do able. Plus if I can generate interest in the kids then using one set of rules (or a two page set of rules), will make it much easier for them and me to teach.   

I will definitely give AR:SE a run through, and the Spank rules were also interesting. The 'Songs' rules also look interesting though I'm now thinking they may be good for the fantasy angle and an excuse to buy from Otherworld (at last!). 

Regards

[AKULA]

I will definitely give AR:SE a run through, and the Spank rules were also interesting.

Never use AR:SE and Spank in the same sentence...

 

[dexter]

I really like FEAR & FAITH i've had some great werewolf,vampire, ghosts and alien games with it, BUT  it doesn't work that well for zombie games.
 The zombies cost almost as much as survivors so you never get that zombie horde feel. You can for example end up with eight humans against ten or elevenzeds in a 300 point game.
A rule that is frustrating in F&F zombie games is the fear rule.
When any monster declares a move to attack  order the human has to make a FEAR save on three dice. It's very rare to pass all three saves, failing on one dice ( which seems to happen the most) causes the human to recoil one base length.
 This doesn't prove to be a problem with most monster and fast zombies, but shamblers often find that their intended victim is now ,just, out of base to base range at the end of their move and so they have no one to attack. Most people i've played with find this frustrating.
The game designer (a very helpful guy) says that this recoil movement can help the monster player to herd the humans into danger, this is true with a lot of monsters but doesn't work with traditional 'Romero' zombies as there never seem to be enough of them on table for this to happen.
There is a zombie supplemen/campaignt in the pipeline that might fix  the above problems but it will probably not be out soon
hope this helps.

[CptJake]

To see if you would like All Things Zombie, check out the free Chain Reaction 3.0, it uses the same reaction system:

http://www.angelfire.com/az3/twohourwargames/free.htm


Direct link to PDF:  http://www.angelfire.com/az3/twohourwargames/files/CR3-Complete.pdf

Jake