Fixing on shields and spears

[cram]

Hi all, Could you please offer some advice on attaching shields and spears? I used Loctite super glue, but the shields/spears broke off pretty easy, I've now tried Araldite Rapid which I felt sure would do the job, as a test I glued a shield to an old orc model, its stuck fast, but now I've used it to glue on my Foundrys African tribesmens shields and the shields snap off easily!! 

[Plynkes]

I use superglue. For Foundry and Copplestone shields I file the fist of the figure down so it is smooth and flat (you don't need finger detail where it will be touching the shield), and if necessary reduce its width and/or height to make sure it fits snugly in the recess of the shield (or trim away part of the shaft for Copplestone Ngoni shields). That way you have a much better bond. Since I have been doing that I haven't had a shield fall off.

One must remember that Superglue isn't super-strong, it is super-quick. Other glues will give a stronger bond. Personally I'm quite happy with superglue. To be honest I would prefer a spear to come free where it is glued if someone knocks it. If the bond is really strong the spear will bend or break instead, which can be more work to fix than if it has simply come loose. But that's just me.

[smirnoff]

I close the spear holding hand (carefully with cushioned pliers) and drill a new hole.
I then make spears from quilting pins using a lump hammer as an anvil and a cobbler's hammer. A smart smack on the pointed end gives a perfect spear leaf.
I use 2 part Epoxy resin glue (Araldite Rapid) to glue in the spear.
Shields as Plynkes' instructions but use epoxy resin as glue.

[Galloping Major]

Just a thought, you may not be doing this, but I fell for it once, with similar results - don't paint the areas to be glued, (or scrape it back off before glueing) otherwise it's glueing paint to paint and the join will only be as strong as the paint.   

Generally I find superglue works fine.

[cram]

Thanks for the help. The areas i've been gluing havent been painted, its just been metal to metal. Had thought of pinning the shields, but the shields look much too thin to go drilling a hole in them! Will take your advise about filing smooth the fist first, and closing the hand around the spears as much as possible.

[Antenociti]

sand the area to around 600-400grit first on both parts, preferably clean it also to remove any oils.

superglue can be quite strong but it varies a LOT from brand to brand.

Also bear in mind that the rate at which is sets alters its strength - generally the faster it sets the weaker it is, and if you force-set it, say by immersing it in water (or the natural humidity is high) then you can cause it to "shock" which makes it very weak.

This is why using accelerators can be detrimental to strength and setting supergleu by immersion in water (or using spittle) should be avoided.

Despite the silly name, 'Filla-Glu' is actually very good as is their "kicka-Pen"..again, stupid name, but good product. 

[sepoy1857]

I use Zap-A-Gap Super glue and it forms a strong bond, but I do this before priming or after but I cover up the areas to be glued with blue-tac before priming.

[redzed]

Despite the silly name, 'Filla-Glu' is actually very good as is their "kicka-Pen"..again, stupid name, but good product. 

the DB's of supa-glue

[cram]

Thanks for the added advice. I think I will give them a go, had been using loctite control gel before. A friend suggested maybe using a chemical metal filler, he said its extremely strong stuff!

[Antenociti]

Thanks for the added advice. I think I will give them a go, had been using loctite control gel before. A friend suggested maybe using a chemical metal filler, he said its extremely strong stuff!

The strength of the glue often isnt the problem Cram.

You need to think of the overall joint in terms of where is likley to be the weakest point, as one poster said earlier, if you glue over paint then the bond is only as strong as the paint-to-metal strength, the strength of the glue in such a case is secondary.

This is why cleaning and prepairing the surfaces to be glued is so important, even an imperceptable layer of oil/grease on the metal surface can result in a very weak bond. This is esepcially important when gluing spears and shields as the area that is being glued is so small - thus anything that weakens the bond is of more significance.

Cleaning the area removes oil/grease (from casting and handling) and sanding it increases the surface area to which the glue can attach.

I've not found many cases where doing that doesn't solve the issue of bond strength, only when it doesn't do you need to look at more expensive alternative and specialist glues (although my next step would be to look at epoxies, but that depends how visible the area to be glued is).

Chemcial Metal - iirc - is 'just' a metalised epoxy putty, I dont see any advantage in using it over any of the normal, cheaper epoxies (ditto for any of the other trade-named "metal fillers" in the automotive arena... its 'just' epoxy with metal filings added to it, the metal wont give any extra benefit in this instance) 

[cram]

Yes your right, if a glue as reputably strong as Araldite is failing to hold, then it has to be my prep work, or rather lack of it.
I will be working at closing the hands arounds spears, or closing the hand first and then using a pin vice to make a hole to fit the weapon into. In the case of shields I'll file the fist flat as advised and slightly roughen the surface before gluing. I'll clean all areas before gluing. Hopefully I'll get a good bond then!

Thanks again, I really do appreciate all the help and advice you've all given.

[ErikB]

Clean your surface well. 

File and sand so the fit is good. 

Make sure there are some sort of grooves in the seam so that there is something to bond to.

Use SLOW DRYING super glue.  There is a generic Games Kastle brand that can be purchased at Games Kastle in Santa Clara, CA, USA, but I am sure that there are similar super glues to this.

I mention it because it works great for me.  The joints are very strong and sturdy though it does take up to a minute to dry, so I am holding the spear in place for a long time and must be extra sure that my finger is not being glued, too.  If it is, then when I pull it off, the spear will probably come off, too.

I believe that there is an inverse relationship between speed of drying and strength of bond - slower drying makes a stronger bond.  Not sure it this is really true but it seems to be.

If your local hobby store doesn't carry different brands of super glue then go look at your local hardware store for different types of cyranoacrylate glue (super glue).  Try the strongest and slowest one and do not use accelerator on it. 

Give this a go, it might help.  Good luck.

[Major Weenie]

I use 'super glue' for spears because it's fast,

But much of the problem with spears is not so much how strong the glue is, but rather that the spear acts as a lever when ever something bumps it.  And the leverage pries off the spear from the hand.

Years ago the then, now ex, girlfriend thought I was an idiot for painting spears when I could just use the plastic bristles from brooms.  So you pick a broom with bristles that are the color you want, paint/finish the figure, then glue the spear in the hand.

It looks nice, and because it's flexible when ever anything bumps/presses on it... It just bends, and doesn't break off.   Here's an example.

A 'fast & dirty' Dervish with both a flag and a spear.

[ErikB]

Flexible spear, not a bad idea.  Reminds me of some kung fu movies I've seen.

Anyway, those spears will act as a moment-arm and create a lot of torque on the joint with the hand.  That's just how they are.

I suggest slower drying super-glue.  The bond will be stronger.  Also, let it dry for a day or two (really) before painting over. 

It's best to glue metal to metal without any layers of paint or primer between.

[Antenociti]

I use 'super glue' for spears because it's fast,

But much of the problem with spears is not so much how strong the glue is, but rather that the spear acts as a lever when ever something bumps it.  And the leverage pries off the spear from the hand.

Years ago the then, now ex, girlfriend thought I was an idiot for painting spears when I could just use the plastic bristles from brooms.  So you pick a broom with bristles that are the color you want, paint/finish the figure, then glue the spear in the hand.

It looks nice, and because it's flexible when ever anything bumps/presses on it... It just bends, and doesn't break off. 

aye, good points there Major; and the longer the solid spear, the greater the problem with leverage.