Newbie starting a table. Need suggestions!

[Faber]

Hi everybody!
I'm thinkin to start a new table but I've never done it before, so need suggestions!
I'have a 150X75 cm table. I'd like to play, of course, on a bigger surface: 160X120 for example. I've thought the better solution for me is the modular squares (40X40?).I'd like to create something useful for different WWII games (not choosen the rules at the moment). Time and place: late war, german (or french?) town destroyed by allied (or axis?) bombardment. I want to create an urban table with city style buildings but destroyed by bombs and artillery.
ANY SUGGESTION IS REALLY WELCOME!
thanks in advance guys!
Faber

[SBMiniaturesGuy]

Welcome to the war!! What kind of table you do is, in my opinion, a function of your storage space. I game in 28mm and while I love the look of custom-crafted terrain tiles, I don't have the storage space. Instead I use  gaming mats with an urban pattern -- cement-grays, brick and such. On one mat I have stenciled a cobblestone stone streets using a stencil pattern from Litko Aero: http://www.litkoaero.com/

The other is just "plain". The mats were from Terrain Mat: http://terrainmat.com/

My buildings and terrain are all mounted on thick card plastic (3mm) with 25mm border that creates the impression of sidewalks. This makes them pretty sturdy, and when needed I have braced the terrain internally with plastic or wooden dowels/struts painted to look like part of the ruin. My buildings are a mix of Armorcast, Amera, Battleworks Studios and Korber Models (model train terrain). I have enough terrain to cover a 180cm x 120cm table, and all of the buildings and mats can be stored in two large plastic storage tubs I bought at a DIY store. Oh, I also have lots of little details like furniture, equipment, rubble, etc. that are easily available from Model Train and Model Doll House suppliers. Model  Dollhouse furniture and accessories in what's called 1/4-inch scale in the US are roughly O-scale in size (1/48-1/56 scale). And for 28mm gaming, Model Train terrain and diorama accessories in O-scale work fine, and some items in S-scale may also be useable.

A list if terrain resources is included in this resource guide to wargaming the Eastern Front in 28mm:
http://sbminisguy.wordpress.com/2010/07/20/resource-guide-for-28mm-ww2-eastern-front-gaming/

Best of luck, have fun putting your terrain together. Please post pictures when you can!

[Faber]

many thanks mate! very helpful. And very nice link too, especially your blog. You have an amazing table (saw your "NUTS! eastern front" pictures  ). The trouble is the space for me... I think I can fix the storage problem but I still have a very little table (90X150cm) it's really small to play. I was thinkin to something like this:


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mdf squares with various road section and a central square: the idea is to create the possibility to change table composition every time you need and at the same time to fix the storage problem. those square are easy to lodege in just one box.
beg your pardon for my english...I'm a mangiaspaghetti
thanks

[dijit]

The problem with that design is that european towns/villages aren't like 'US-block' towns, roads are curved, irregular, junctions aren't straight - makes for much more interesting boards, but is a pain for the terrain builder. You'll probably end up finding that table just looks 'wrong', it might be better doing as SBminiatures guy suggested and doing some odd 'irregular' pieces to break up the straight lines.
Duncan

[Faber]

yeah, you are right. Maybe it could work a separate road on the board. Hm, maybe some straight on section, cross and curve sections. but, what about the pattern on the board? I would like to create something totally urban but the mat do not works for me cause my table dimension... what can I apply on mdf squares? 
many many thanks for the suggestions!

[6milPhil]

Dijit is quite right,

here's a map of Carentan from ww2;



And here's two quite different attempts to  map that for a digital game;





Finally Dominic's rather neat gaming solution for the town @ http://www.matakishi.com/carentan.htm


Some food for thought...

[matakishi]

Finally matakishi's rather neat gaming solution for the town

Not mine, Dominic did all the work, I just hosted the finished article. It all appeared on the LAF first.

[Silent Invader]

I especially like that first digital map of Carentan as it reminds me of the general appearance of Normandy villages, where the centre is a hotch-potch of hard angles cutting into and out of roads of various widths and dimensions, as buildings have been extended here and there with the only seeming regard to have been for the immediate availablity of building space.  

As has been pointed out, the proposed game table looks like a modern-day 'new town' (Milton Keynes or Las Vegas, take your pick!   ) block layout.  For me, a Normandy village should look like the building layout has dictated the road positioning rather than the road layout has dictated the building positioning.

For gaming purposes you could represent the village footprint with a gravel surface area, onto which you place various angular buildings to define the roads.  This generic surface means that few of the terrain tiles need much surface detail and so are easier to store plus you can move the buildings around for a different set-ups.

That said, if you intend to extend the table into the surrounding countryside this will require additional grass rather than gravel terrain boards that incorporate some sort of village perimeter. As shown in the WW2 map of Carentan, while the internal roads will be a mix of angles, those outside the village will be an odd mix of curves and angles, dictated by landscape feature and field boundaries.

You will also need to give thought as to how you will approach the buildings.  For example, representative solid structures or fully detailed with accessible interiors, or somewhere between.  There are a variety of approaches, all of which eventually come down to a decision of personal preference and compromise.

Good luck!  

EDIT:  Should also have said, for urban skirmish games, a small table isn't necessarily a limiting factor for a fun game.....  sight lines and cover become very important.  Bolt Action miniatures produced a set of rules geared towards such small games.

[dijit]

One of the things I've considered, but never done (so if you do it then I can live it vicariously!) is having a gravel base board and buildings with paving attached as Silent Invader suggested, then to represent the fields, having flocked shapes of thin plywood or MDF with hedges marked on them which would then form fields and country lanes all on top of the afore mentioned gravel base board. Once my current to boards are finished I'll be turning to a WWII 20mm board, o I'm very interested in seeing how you do it.
Duncan

[Faber]

Wonderful site matakishi! and many thanks 6milPhil for the pictures and links. I think it will be a great source of inspiration for my project: I will use some of the dominic's techniques for sure.
About the gravel board duncan: it was my first idea. I think that a grey gravel base would fit perfectly for a big town project. For first I think I'm gonna do 12 MDF squares 40X40 covered by grey painted gravel (it should create a good effect, something similar the sbminiaturesguy grey mat). Afther that, I'll start the production of a lot of paved ruined buildings. So doing, the surface not covered by buildings and buildings related sidewalks will be the road. In this way, if I change the buildings position I will obtain a different roads composition. Sounds good?
Back to time and space: the idea is to play with two forces, german and british in late war (did I mention the scale? I play in 28mm). I'd like to set a 25/30 infantry men plus 2/3 tanks/artillery per force. Maybe, once finished this two battleforces I will start a similar soviet group. To fit british, german and soviet I think the best battlefield is germany. Am I right? SO maybe a german town is the best solution (I really love the italian front too but it would means no soviet and I love soviet more than italian front ). It may be a west big town when playng with the british force and a east one when playing soviet. I do not want to create something historically perfect, I think it's better to use my energies and little sparetime to build and play than searching in archieves even if I really admire who has the patience to do this. Really loves WWII but my mind is open to weird version too so i think I do not need the historical accuracy.
Love you guys. This forum is a wonderful brainstorm.
Faber

[SBMiniaturesGuy]

"EDIT:  Should also have said, for urban skirmish games, a small table isn't necessarily a limiting factor for a fun game.....  sight lines and cover become very important"

Very true. The last few OstFront games I've run ended up inside one building. I have a large two-piece apartment building and the players seem drawn to it for some reason, with multiple squads fighting at extremely close quarters.

[6milPhil]

Not mine, Dominic did all the work, I just hosted the finished article. It all appeared on the LAF first.

Apologies to Dominic for my poor attention to detail.  Edited it now.

The last few OstFront games I've run ended up inside one building. I have a large two-piece apartment building and the players seem drawn to it for some reason, with multiple squads fighting at extremely close quarters.

Good point, I think if the buildings can have figures placed inside you'll see a lot more play inside them. A lot of buildings are a single piece and movement around those is typically limited to in or out which misses out all the great play, and horrendous casualties, you can have room to room.

[SBMiniaturesGuy]

I'm thinking of building out the interior of that apartment building some with lift-out floors, kind of like what Litko Aero is doing. The building is big enough to move a bunch of figures in, and in the absence of a real floor plan we just rule that figures inside the building are considered in cover when shooting at each other or throwing grenades. Works ok.

[Old Goat]

For what it's worth I mount my buildings on Dinner Place Mats, realtively cheap, easy to get, nice Cork bottom and hardwaring, non-warpable tops...

Best bit is that it does form a very handy yard and pavement area for most regular buildings.

Ah, also coasters make for nice little features, fountains or war memorials for town squares, entry to a mine, ammo dump etc.

Then you can use mats, boards whatever you want and just plop your coaster based terrain/features on top where you want...

If you've a slightly OCD based view of regular elements of wargaming it stop you sweating and running off to turn the light on and off thirty times before you roll your dice...

Best, Goat.

[6milPhil]

Just to add to what OG said, he's converted me to Dining Place Mats as bases, they're cheap, easy to find, non-slip due to the cork on the underside, found in regular sizes and thus far impossible to warp (and I have tried).

I will be trying to saw one in half soon, but it's Christmas and you have to spoil yourself don't you?