New Mounted Cossacks from Brigade Games

[janner]

The only noticeable difference in appearance between regular cavalry and steppe Cossacks was the colour of the breeches and shoulderboards. I recommend just using the Copplestone White Russian Cossacks and painting them as hussars or dragoons

Not for 1914-6, there were substantial differences in the jackets, boots and head dress between regular cavalry and the various Cossack units - not to mention lacing on the breaches in some cases.

[Ataman]

Not for 1914-6, there were substantial differences in the jackets, boots and head dress between regular cavalry and the various Cossack units - not to mention lacing on the breaches in some cases.

I was speaking in terms of the miniatures that any conversions would have to be minimal. I don't think many people pay attention to what boots your troops are wearing  . The papakha and furashka were universal in the Russian Army, so any other forms of headgear would likely only have been used on parade or very early in the war, and the same applies to jackets. Lacing can simply be painted on.

EDIT: Also, I'm referring to the steppe hosts and not the Caucasian ones. The latter definitely had very different uniforms from the cavalry.

[janner]

I was speaking in terms of the miniatures that any conversions would have to be minimal. I don't think many people pay attention to what boots your troops are wearing  . The papakha and furashka were universal in the Russian Army, so any other forms of headgear would likely only have been used on parade or very early in the war, and the same applies to jackets. Lacing can simply be painted on.

Interesting perspective, but missing any understanding of people who enjoy the process of recreating historic units. The boots of Hussars, for example, were a totally different cut and the comment about head dress is not supported by photos taken of units of cavalry in the field as late as 1916 (or does this still sit within your 'very early war' period?).

Not sure why you find it laughable that some people want accurately sculpted minis

[Ataman]

Interesting perspective, but missing any understanding of people who enjoy the process of recreating historic units. The boots of Hussars, for example, were a totally different cut and the comment about head dress is not supported by photos taken of units of cavalry in the field as late as 1916 (or does this still sit within your 'very early war' period?).

Not sure why you find it laughable that some people want accurately sculpted minis

I never said it was laughable, I just mean that it would be redundant to make regular cavalry minis because they're already so similar to the steppe Cossacks (and vice-versa, though I've never seen a site with only regular cav and no Cossacks). I guess our philosophy differs. I've never really been bothered by doing a little conversion work, especially something as simple as changing the cut of a boot or doing a headswap.

Again, I've never seen a cavalry unit in the Russian army wearing old-style hats post 1915. I'm genuinely interested in that photo if you're correct.

[Hammers]

Calm down, fellas...

[janner]

I never said it was laughable, I just mean that it would be redundant to make regular cavalry minis because they're already so similar to the steppe Cossacks (and vice-versa, though I've never seen a site with only regular cav and no Cossacks). I guess our philosophy differs. I've never really been bothered by doing a little conversion work, especially something as simple as changing the cut of a boot.

Again, I've never seen a cavalry unit in the Russian army wearing old-style hats post 1915, and any photos proving me wrong would be appreciated.

Sorry if I misunderstood your intent, I'm obviously suffering the after affects of the disgraceful performance of the English rugby team today.

Moving on, there are some photos in Jägerskiöld's biography of Mannerheim as I recall so that would be worth looking at for Uhlan dress in the field around this time.

So, given that I am too lazy to convert 60+ figures per squadron to use with The Great War rules, I'll await a figure that only requires some work on the odd figure to show variety on campaign.

[Mark Plant]

Not for 1914-6, there were substantial differences in the jackets, boots and head dress between regular cavalry and the various Cossack units - not to mention lacing on the breaches in some cases.

We're not gaming 1914-1916.

I'd like to know the differences between 1918 Steppe Cossacks and Regular Cavalry which one might notice in 28mm. For that matter, the difference from 1914.

-- As far as I was aware the WWI furazhka was identical, although Cossacks tended to wear it at an alarming angle. The "Handbook of the Russian Army" makes no distinctions and I've never noticed any in pictures. Different colours, of course.

-- The Cossack boots had no spurs. But Russian military spurs were not huge in any case and barely noticeable at that scale. Instead the Cossacks should have a whip, but no-one depicts them that way. Hussars had slightly different shaped boots in 1914, but I doubt many were wearing them by 1918.

-- The Cossacks had a broader trouser stripe.

-- The Cossack sword is different, although how many people had regulation swords is unclear, even in 1914 officers had a tendency to have the wrong swords.

-- I suppose the horse equipment was different. By 1918 you had what you could get.

-- Siberian Cossacks tended to have those enormous furry hats. I would not put those on AFSR regulars, but why not Siberian regulars? Everyone seems to have worn them in Kolchak's forces. That's more an issue of which theatre you are representing.

-- The only one that gets me, and only a button counter would even notice, is the direction the rifle was slung across the back.

Most "White" Cavalry were recruited Cossacks or Natives in any case. I bet they retained their old ways, with whips instead of spurs etc.

Normally I am at the fussy end of history/uniforms, but I definitely would go with Cossacks as RCW White regulars. To be honest, assuming they aren't wearing the budenovka (pixie hat) or razgovory (tabs on coat/blouse), I would glue shoulderboards onto Reds to use as Whites.

[janner]

We're not gaming 1914-1916.

Sorry, I misunderstood, the thread didn't seem exclude the time frame in which I am interested.

[area23]

Thanks all, for posting the pics and giving opinions. I'm not much concerned with historical accuracy, but I really love to read about meticulous details like the ones mentioned above!

[carlos marighela]

Very nice figures. I want some. My only reservation is that the horeses seem like stonking great beasts. Might just be me but when I think of cossacks I tend to think ponies. Happy to be shot down if I'm wrong on that score.

[Patrice]

What about the way they carry their rifle on their back ? Is it true that in cossack fashion the rifle butt was on the left hip (as Copplestone cossacks), this is different from all line cavalry of most countries including Russia who had the rifle butt on the right hip and easier to catch with the right hand (as Copplestone bolshevik cavalry)?

[Sterling Moose]

Lon,

I would be interested in 20 or so riders but not the horses.  Are you able to accomodate such a request or are the horses and riders in the same mould?

Thx

Sterling

[brigadegames]

Seriously, I think most of us understand the plights of a man running a small business. For my own part I just want to make sure I don't buy the pig in a poke.

Am I correct in assuming that you would prefer to work with a mini painter on your side of the pond?

Understood.

I would work with any very good painter - it doesn't really matter where. Quality, turnaround and keeping to a schedule are the important points.

Sorry - been real busy with work, con prep, then the con last week. This week through this weekend we are clearing the orders that stacked up while away and this week so hopefully by tomorrow (3/20) we will be all caught up.

BTW - the open handed figure from the command pack is meant to be a standard bearer.

[Mark Plant]

What about the way they carry their rifle on their back ? Is it true that in cossack fashion the rifle butt was on the left hip (as Copplestone cossacks), this is different from all line cavalry of most countries including Russia who had the rifle butt on the right hip and easier to catch with the right hand (as Copplestone bolshevik cavalry)?

This is true.

Which is why I would be tempted to convert regular White cavalry out of Bolsheviks rather than Steppe Cossacks. With Copplestone that means converting some lancers though (either head swaps off his standard bearers or converging swordsmen). And adding shoulderboards.

[cuprum]

Hi.



 Here's a look at the difference: Army Cavalry landing in the saddle (European), and Cossack landing in the saddle (Asian).
 It is markedly different. As Mark correctly observed - a rifle on his back the Cossacks, and all the others wore a different shoulder.