*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
October 05, 2024, 07:57:17 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Donate

We Appreciate Your Support

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 1713397
  • Total Topics: 119953
  • Online Today: 227
  • Online Ever: 2235
  • (October 29, 2023, 01:32:45 AM)
Users Online

Recent

Author Topic: Claymore?  (Read 5593 times)

Offline Viper

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 519
  • Sunny Scotland
Re: Claymore?
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2010, 01:17:51 PM »
And the original basket hilted sword was of European origin (17th century),Scottish mercenaries returning from Ireland brought them back where they were known as Irish hilts.Later when the swords became a Scottish 'thing' the blades were made in Europe the hilts in Scotland.

There is certainly some evidence to the contrary with earlier examples of basket hilted swords (late 1500s) of scottish origin.

It's thought that possibly german basket hilts were inspired by the Sinclair Saber from its use by Scots in Scandinavia.

Of course as with all european swords there was a great deal of spontanious similarity and cross pollination of ideas.

On the irish thing I have read that in lowland Scotland the basket hilt was reffered to as a highland hilt while in england where the Scottish highlanders were seen as gaels/irish it became known as an irish hilt.

There were variations and progressions through out the Scotland, england and ireland though all around this same time period. With crossguards becoming longer, having curving iron bars descending from them and on into the full basket hilt itself.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 01:19:52 PM by Viper »
Nemo me impune lacessit
Wha daur meddle wi' me?

Offline carlos marighela

  • Elder God
  • Posts: 11383
  • Flamenguista até morrer.
Re: Claymore?
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2010, 03:11:25 PM »
Seen these, H?

>>Link<<

Doesn't look like they are going to get released, unfortunately.

Kilted troops on Greybacks and Solar topees would be a definite purchase for me.
Em dezembro de '81
Botou os ingleses na roda
3 a 0 no Liverpool
Ficou marcado na história
E no Rio não tem outro igual
Só o Flamengo é campeão mundial
E agora seu povo
Pede o mundo de novo

Offline Arlequín

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 6218
  • Culpame de la Bossa Nova...
Re: Claymore?
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2010, 04:31:15 PM »
I'd be tempted to say that carrying a sword by an officer might endure longer in India than elsewhere. It may very well have been the 'thing' that distinguished an officer to the tribesmen they had to deal with. Then again it might not. Certainly a sword couldn't be worn with the webbing most officers were issued with during WW2 and after. So unless they went to the personal expense of actually buying a sword and the harness to go with it (other than a ceremonial weapon), I'd imagine 1939 might be a cut-off date of sorts.

Offline carlos marighela

  • Elder God
  • Posts: 11383
  • Flamenguista até morrer.
Re: Claymore?
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2010, 09:35:52 PM »
I'd be tempted to say that carrying a pig sticker died out quicker in India than elsewhere. On the NWF, the tribesmen were wont to pick off officers and a sword is just an encumberance when climbing up bloody great hills. If memory serves John Masters talks about carrying a standard SMLE when serving as an officer with the Gurkhas. Sticks were popular but these could be used in the fashion of an alpenstock so they had some practical application.

Offline Arlequín

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 6218
  • Culpame de la Bossa Nova...
Re: Claymore?
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2010, 09:58:18 PM »
Then perhaps it's something that might be confined to silly young subalterns and older officers who should know better? Certainly the Great War taught many officers that a rifle was far more useful and far less noticeable, as did the Boer War a decade before. I've no doubt that fighting officers on the NWF would have discovered the same. There would no doubt be some very short careers for those who chose not to dive for cover when the shooting started, so as not to create the wrong impression to the men, and probably also for those who chose to look 'like an officer' should.

I don't know where Mad Jack did his early soldiering, but his comments about an officer being improperly dressed without a sword, imply there were some who put appearance over practicality. For my part, I'd go with a rifle too.

Offline Colonel Tubby

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1345
Re: Claymore?
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2010, 07:51:25 PM »
'Mad Jack' Churchill carried one in 1940... but then he carried a longbow and arrows too, becoming the last British soldier to kill an enemy with one in battle. He was in the Manchester Regiment, so you'd expect him to carry the 1897 pattern Infantry Sword, but no, he went for the basket-hilted 'Claymore'.

That's the great thing about this forum, I'm always coming across internesting infomation I never normally would.

Just googled 'Mad Jack' - interesting sounding character to say the least - kind of calls out for a conversion, a WW2 commando with sword and longbow!

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
16 Replies
5618 Views
Last post May 26, 2009, 10:29:07 AM
by Kestrel
5 Replies
2857 Views
Last post July 31, 2009, 09:43:28 PM
by oldskoolrebel
1 Replies
2116 Views
Last post August 02, 2009, 03:11:24 PM
by Chairface
3 Replies
2438 Views
Last post July 22, 2011, 08:14:43 PM
by swiftnick
14 Replies
3938 Views
Last post July 27, 2012, 01:29:40 AM
by einarolafson