Polish Army's raid on Kovel, 12 September 1920

[cuprum]

 Great job 
 Very interesting and entertaining camouflage of Poles.

[Dave Knight]

I saw them "in the flesh" on Monday - they do look very good

[David]

The next problem is what colour would the Truck be painted?
just ordered the battle of warsaw Film so this might help
any help would be great
Thanks
David

[koz10]

The next problem is what colour would the Truck be painted?
just ordered the battle of warsaw Film so this might help
any help would be great
Thanks
David

I think I used Foundry colors - Ochre C, Stone (or Slate - whichever has a tint of blue) Gray, Forest Green and Conker Brown. It was several years ago when I painted up some that I got from Company B.

[David]

OK i watched the battle of warsaw Film, which was great wee film.
It brought up some points, how correct are the uniforms for both sides?
no Trucks in the film but they had some Tanks and some cars.
So any chance koz10 of putting a picture of the trucks you painted up here?
the main one i will be painting will be the Fiat 15 Ter light truck, plus some others.
David

[cuprum]

In the Russian Imperial Army military equipment could be painted by any suitable shades of colors: "dark green" "Yellow Ochre", "green grass".
In the years of revolution and civil war, the Red could use reserves gray paint designed for painting warships.
Cars coming from allies in the Imperial Army, and later - falling to the Red Army as trophies usually repainted, if they did not need repair. If the car is off for the repair company - it changed the color of one of the above colors. The same happened with cars confiscated from the civilian population and the organizations for the army. They have to be able to repair a serious civil coloration.

On the Polish practice in this matter I do not say anything. This question was not interested.



Truck "WHITE", the past major overhaul at the Moscow Automobile Plant.

[David]

Hi
Just got my new 28mm polish infantry today.
I do need help on the 2 infantry battalions from the 7th Infantry Division.
1. Need help on what half a battalion of infantry was in the advance guard?
2. What colour badges on the collar?
3. what colour would I use to paint polish Uniforms, various colours I have seen is different shades of Brown
4 Still need to pin down colour on Trucks, could be black or various depend on where they came from, if sent from France would they be in French colours?
Thanks for any help
David

[ts]

Under the command of Major Bochenek a motorized group was set up, composed of II/26 pp and three companies from pp III/26, the machine-gun company and the technical platoon of 26 pp., 2. and 3. battery of 7 pap  and six armoured cars (about 1,000 soldiers, eight guns and 26 machine-guns). To transport the infantry were assigned 28 trucks. Fuel supply during the action was provided by three tankers. On one makeshift armoured truck were placed six machine-guns.



I have only one contemporary photo from 26 pp (without the dark-blue collar patch! - but with Poles nothing is certain, as the sergeant has the 1919 shoulder-strap distinctions with regimental number and the private is without wezyke on his collar. The shown rogatywka is a little surprising. The sergeant is a former legionnaire, as can be seen from his collar-wezyke running along the bottom of his collar.)
The 26pp was formed in the earlier Austrian part of Poland (the first equipment came from disarming the 100th Austrian Infantry Regiment) and the III Battalion in 1918 formed from POW members (and so political soldiers of Pilsudski like the legionaries), so one would believe more maciejowkas and side-caps than rogatywkas were worn. The regiments from Gallicia and Eastern parts were among the worst uniformed and equipped units, so uniforms in shades of brown like those shown worn by the breakfasting soldiers will fit.


The III Battalion seems to have been widely in action, so maybe they have been better and more re-equipped.
The machine-gun company can, as elite unit, have worn steel helmets, the machine-gun arm-badge will have been of the 1919 model..

[David]

Thanks ts
So I could have two units in old style and two units in the new style figures.
since the companies might not have all the same style of uniform, but have the same colour facing eg dark blue background with white laceing. and brown Khaki.
had the colour for the 1919 uniform change for the WW2 polish uniform?
cheers
David

[ts]

Hi
in the battalions and companies the men were fairly uniform in their outlook, but as you see from just the breakfasting picture, some in same unit does not have the blue patch. Headdresses, both maciejowkas, rogatywkas and side caps were in all different shapes.
The brown for M. 1919 was very close to the English WWI uniform, which of course does not say much, as very few got the M.1919 until after 1921.
In reality any shade goes. The Poles themselves produced very little cloth and mostly of very bad quality. Most uniform cloth was bought from abroad, from other armies surplus. A lot came from American surplus in Europe.
As I see it, one can only hope to find contemporary, dated photos from identified units, if one want to be "correct". Else one has to guess from informations, on where the unit was formed, stationed and fought - and remember the uniforms seldom lasted long and getting replacements were difficult. But when re-equipped with some uniform part, it was the whole company or battalion in one go. And of course the Poles used what they could take in the field from adversaries.
The 26 pp can be considered an "Austrian" or Gallician regiment, the III Battalion with strong Legion ties, fighting in Ukraine, against the Czechs and later Southern Poland against Cavalry Corps of Budionny, so most of their equipment has come from that area (Austria, Italy), if not delivered from central depots.
So in reality, any colour shade goes.
The Polish army of 1918-1921 is not a subject for the button counters.  

[Mark Plant]

The Polish army of 1918-1921 is not a subject for the button counters.  

I agree. Even worrying about collar flashes is getting overly keen. The photo shown above is, after all, a staged one in a studio.

Senior officers should be in 1919 official uniform.

If you want to see the colours, the Warsaw army museum has a bunch of uniforms from the 1919-1920 period and after. My photos are here http://www.pygmywars.com/technical/polandtrip/warsawmuseum.html but are not great quality. Maybe someone here knows some better versions?

[ts]

I agree with Mark Plant, the photo showing a Sergeant from 26pp is most possibly made in a studio and for such props were often used.
His collar and shoulder-strap does not fit together, regimental numbers on the shoulder-straps first come around 1930, except for some single regiments. The missing breast-pockets are suspect, especially for a NCO.
Also the loving "brotherly care" from the sergeant seems suspect, even if they were brothers.
Discipline in the then Polish Army was rather harsh.

[David]

I did order one of each head packs.
So I will have to see what heads I have, I could have one unit in german/Italian helmets and hats.
one in normal polish hats and two units from the new release figures.
I will have to convert a truck into a armoured truck? Scheltrum Miniatures has a armoured truck which I could convert ?
http://scheltrum.co.uk/se284.html
I have one Thorneycroft and four Fiat ter  trucks at the minute.
David

[ts]

If you has the different head packs, you can make everything, you wish, as any (or most) German, Austrian, French or Turk miniature can be turned into "Polish" infantry with head swaps and maybe a little filing and green stuff. Same goes for Russians in great-coats.
Polish "national" uniform 1918-1921 is an evolution taking and using bits from all the surrounding countries and armies.
Same goes for weapons used, as the Poles themselves had no weapon production, and why should they? There was enough left over from WWI.

[David]

Hi ts
Do you have any picture of the flag of the regiment 26 pp, otherwise I will have to paint each unit with no flagmen
David