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Author Topic: Polish Army's raid on Kovel, 12 September 1920  (Read 23832 times)

Offline ts

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 259
Re: Polish Army's raid on Kovel, 12 September 1920
« Reply #45 on: September 17, 2013, 05:16:40 PM »
Good question,
In the early days, ie during the uprisings, it seems many or most of the volunteer units carried flags, very often red with the white eagle.
Most of the Poznan army carried regulated regimental flags and standards - also in the field.
When it come to units outside the German controlled areas, it becomes more murky. There are less photos, museum pieces, documents  and such - and after 1945 the now White Russian and Ukrainian areas were de-polonized - also historically - and so information is difficult or impossible to find.
The 8. Lancers (an "Austrian" regiment) carried a standard, made by the officers' women, but sent it back to depot, when the fightings against Budionny started. It was carried 1939 but since lost, do not remember burried or burned by the Poles.
The Poles had a rule, so it is claimed, if a regiment lost a regimental colour, it was to be disbanded and its numbewr stricken from its ranks. So you see no Polish colours taken by the Germans in 1939. Only a mere trumpet banner could be presented to Hitler in Warsaw as a "taken Polish colour".
All early colours used 1918-21 should be sent to the Military Museum in Warsaw, when the new regulation colours were presented, most of them after the war, even if some also were presented before the war ended. Not all were sent to the museum, some went to regimental or local museums. It has not been possible to find any lists, articles or such on the subject.
But there must have been lots of locally produced colours and flags in use. So the Army Command tries to get a little order in it all through regulations, when complaining about all the different colours and flags presented and given to any passing units by communities, towns and societies. Many units so getting more than one flag, and of course each in its own style.
I have a single photo of even company colours used in the field 1919-20.

So you will have to use your imagination on how the colours of 26pp can have been.
26pp was formed around the towns of Radom, Końskie and Włoszczowa.
I am rather sure, they have had something, not least as it was one of the very early formations and with close ties and financing from the Polish independence movement, the former Legions and POW in Galizia.
Red with white eagle on the one side and on the other some badges or descriptions showing the local area or towns, a Madonna in a field and some text, anything goes.
The Polish Legion, when figthing for Austria 1914-15 did not get any official Austrian Army colours, but they certainly had their own Polish, and that a very elaborate of which photo exists from 1915.
The 26pp did first get an official, regulation colour from the grateful local communities in Lwow on September 17, 1922.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 11:53:35 AM by ts »

Offline Mark Plant

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 549
    • Pygmy Wars : Russian Civil War and Related Stuff
Re: Polish Army's raid on Kovel, 12 September 1920
« Reply #46 on: September 18, 2013, 05:20:24 AM »
Some examples of flags are here: http://www.pygmywars.com/technical/polandtrip/warsawmuseum.html

Some themes are very strong: virgins, white eagles on red, maltese crosses etc, city emblems. Polish iconography hasn't changed that much really.

Remember however that the regimental flag was, as pointed out by ts, a strongly held emblem not to be trifled with. There is no way it went into battle at the front of a rifle company. Putting it anywhere but your regimental HQ would be quite wrong (and it probably was replaced by a "battle" version even then).

However battalions and companies had flags too. Usually smaller and less ornate -- hence much easier to paint. And they would be carried by a rifle company. I would just put something like a simple madonna on one side, white eagle on red on the other with the company number on the opposite side of the eagle from the regiment number.

Offline David

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  • Posts: 451
Re: Polish Army's raid on Kovel, 12 September 1920
« Reply #47 on: September 18, 2013, 06:15:43 PM »
Thanks for the information
David

Offline ts

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 259
Re: Polish Army's raid on Kovel, 12 September 1920
« Reply #48 on: September 18, 2013, 11:05:38 PM »
Some infantry colours for inspiration:


!. Polish Corps in Russia - 7. Rifle Regiment.


National or Peoples Guard (Straz Ludowa) 1919.






Volunteers from Oborniki and the surrounding area during training at Lwówk.


1. Czarnkow Battalion 1919.


1. Kczynski Company 1919.








Vilnius 1919.


Pilsudski at Lida 6-12.1920 presenting the Virtuti Militari to the colours of the 9. Division.


61pp parading in Kiev 1920.


55pp on the march in 1920.


55pp parading in Bobruisk May 1920.


Bobruisk 1920.


Bobruisk 1920.


5pp 1920.


Pilsudski at Berdyczcow Station 5 May !920.




Colour presented by Prince .... (find the name later.)


3. Bytom Battalion.


3. Bytom Battalion.




In the field.


The Batallion of Death in Warsaw, just before being sent to front. The batallion was made up from men unwanted by the Polish Army, for political and/or criminal reasons, men preferably shot, but instead they were assembled in the battalion. With no great success.


4. Regiment in the Silesian Uprising.


From the Silesian Uprising 1919.


Silesian Uprising.


Silesian Uprising.


Possibly a WLKP regiment.


Possibly a WLKP regiment.


14 division - Pozanians


Unknown.







« Last Edit: July 11, 2015, 03:44:02 AM by ts »

Offline Mark Plant

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 549
    • Pygmy Wars : Russian Civil War and Related Stuff
Re: Polish Army's raid on Kovel, 12 September 1920
« Reply #49 on: September 19, 2013, 05:20:33 AM »
Thanks TS.

I knew they had company and battalion flags, but it is really hard to get pictures of them. That has filled a big gap for me.

Offline MatrixGamer

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  • Posts: 64
    • http://www.io.com/~hamster
Re: Polish Army's raid on Kovel, 12 September 1920
« Reply #50 on: October 03, 2013, 02:55:16 PM »
Where did you get this map. I want one!

The Soviets would have looked like any other Red Army I imagine.

Ratno looked more or less like this:



Hamster Press = Engle Matrix Games
http://www.io.com/~hamster

Offline Mark Plant

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 549
    • Pygmy Wars : Russian Civil War and Related Stuff

Offline MatrixGamer

  • Bookworm
  • Posts: 64
    • http://www.io.com/~hamster
Re: Polish Army's raid on Kovel, 12 September 1920
« Reply #52 on: October 04, 2013, 02:00:18 PM »
WOW!

Thank you! This is a treasure trove of maps. I see many years of gaming coming from this site.

Offline ts

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 259
Re: Polish Army's raid on Kovel, 12 September 1920
« Reply #53 on: October 04, 2013, 06:32:38 PM »
On their way to Kovel




 

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