VUK testing (with pics)

[Dolmot]

Hello

In a sudden moment of inspiration (actually, my first proper day off since last summer), we decided to start a small VUK (Von Unaussprechlichen Kulten) campaign. In another moment of madness I started documenting these sessions. Don't expect any spectacular, polished reports. I'm just trying to play games. Everything else is lucky extra. In fact, I put these lists together in 15 minutes and started playing without even reading the rules properly. If I find more time for this and have any energy remaining, I'll dump some photos here:

Cult Following





So...quick snaps, forgotten rules, chipped game boards and probably some broken html, but a pile of jolly gaming pics as well. (This first part has about 4 MB on a single page. Let me know if it's too much for your machine or connection.)

I'll also use this topic for assorted commentary and rules questions. Everyone else is welcome to participate too. Thanks.  

[Achilles]

Looks like tremendous pun! (intended)

[Ramirez Noname]

Hi Dolmot,

Thanks for posting the photos and report - it looks like you had a great game and day off.

I've just been checking out the serpent men on the EM4 site and I think I'll be grabing some in a couple of weeks time at the Penarth Show - your paint job has inspired me.

Ramirez

[ennui]

Wow, that looks great!  I just started SA and already I can't wait to put together a Church of the Yellow Sign cult.  Keep up the nice shots!

[Uncle Mike]

Lookin' good Dolmot. Looks like the Maniac was a real ripper on the battlefield!

[Dolmot]

Thanks to all for chipping in. We'll continue soon, I hope. Meanwhile, I'll post a handful of questions/comments. There are more, but let's start with something. (Some of these may have been answered elsewhere. Unfortunately all this multitasking has corrupted my memory.)

Speaking of Maniacs...

1 ) "Maniacs automatically Frenzy! when making a resolve test." - Does this mean "instead of making the test in the first place" or failing it? Against non-human cults there is typically a reason to take a test or two every turn, so effectively you get a 6-attack model for 7 points. (See also: Cleavers below.)

2 ) Frenzy: "Model makes 1 Move Action towards the closest enemy model (if not in base-to-base already) --".
Move Actions: "Move Actions may NEVER end in base-to-base with an enemy model (that would be a Charge)."
Charge: "A Charge is a Move Action that brings the nominated model into base-to-base with an enemy model. A round of Close Combat is fought immediately."
So what does a frenzying model really do, in or out of close combat? Is Charge ultimately a Move Action or not?

3 ) Multiple Opponents: "If a Draw against multiple opponents occurs, the player must choose one model to fight Close Combat and receive bonus Attacks." Which player? What does this mean? Let's take a trickier case and say we have models 1a-2b-1c-2d fighting in a chain. It's player 1's turn. Who will fight and who chooses what?

4 ) Cover Saves: "Medium: any terrain that covers at least half of the target --", "Heavy: any terrain that covers more than half the target --". OK, there is a theoretical exactly-half point, which is "at least" while not "more than", but does this really make any sense? (In practice we treat these as "about half" and "a lot" or something, but a proper rule would be nice.)

5 ) How does armour combine? If a thick-skinned model wears armour, do the bonuses stack and can you pierce a part of it with AP? Is insufficient AP of any use or just wasted?

6 ) How do Saves combine? Do I get extra save for a mix of Duck skill / being down / terrain?

7 ) Does the Hybrid special ability affect non-Threshold models?

8 ) Comment: Currently there is no real reason to take any other close combat weapon than Meat Cleaver, ever. I think we'll remove Parry from it first and then see if it's still taken by every model every time.

9 ) How do Maul / Bite / other natural attacks relate to Unarmed combat and Two (or more) Weapons?

10 ) If a model suffers Revulsion, can I choose the weapon/attack which causes the free Wound? Some of them have special effects...

11 ) Poison: when does the -1 Con take place? When does it begin?
 
12 ) Comment: I suggest that the VUK skills are rolled individually and given to that particular model. Otherwise you end up with rather ugly combo-building, where any model who has received an injury first is never chosen. More randomness, please.

13 ) If I buy a Spell to a starting model and the points sort of disappear (VUK p.30), which one of "You can save up to 5 RP" and "your TCR should be somewhere between 35 and 40" no longer applies?

OK, we got 13. That's enough for now. Going back lurking...

[Anatoli]

Looks fantastic, awesome miniatures and terrain! 

[Uncle Mike]

Hey Dolmot,

I'll try to answer your questions in order...but not all at once...that's a lot of questions.
Here we go:

1) I'm not so worried about the wording in Strange Aeons but for Kulten it does become important. I would change the wording to read: Maniacs will automatically Frenzy when they fail a Resolve test. Still a crazy good Human model for the points but a little less killy...

2) You got me here...poor wording on my part. The model will make a Move action (if not in base-to-base already), if this Move ends in base-to-base consider it a Charge.

3) At the start of the Turn (when fighting Draws) the player with multiple models must choose one and gain the bonuses (+1 Attacks per additional model in base-to-base) from the others.

4) Never really noticed it. Use common sense and gentlemannly banter to figure it out amongst yourselves.

5) the bonuses do stack. Likewise with natural armour (as a Fishman has).

6) No written 'official' rule on this one. At home we like to stack each applicable save.

7) Nope.

I'll get back to you on the rest...let me know if my answers so far make sense...

[jnr]

No.8
Make no since to remove the parry from the meat cleaver, as if you say every one take it then the parry  will cancel it’s self out, it is a good basic C.C.B weapon, but you will need a higher AP to bye pass heavy armour . As uncle mike say body armour stacks with natural armour. E.g. fish man con  would be 6/9 with heavy body armour +2 and the meat cleaver would only bring that down to 6/8.

No9
Claws Maul and Bites are all forms of  weapons in C.C.B and would have that free hit against a unarmed , on page 22 it stats that a player may wish to use two C.C.B weapons if he wishes, so don’t see why not claw maul or bite can’t be used with a hand weapon, but only one weapon can do the damage, so may not be worth combing them.

[Uncle Mike]

O.K. let's do a few more...

The Meat Cleaver has been a bone of contention with a few players. It was 1.5BP when we first started playtesting Strange Aeons but I'm not really into 1.5BP weapons so it became a 1BP weapon instead. Then we included Parry as a skill to counter it's usefullness. I Don't think I'll change it...

9) What Jnr said. They are not Unarmed and it counts as a weapon. Can be used with Two-Fisted.

10) You bet! You get to do your worst to a cowardly model as it tries to run away. 

11) At the start of each turn (yours and your opponents). So, the turn after you get poisoned you start suffering the effects.

12) This idea is going to be argued around the gaming table for a few weeks before I give a final verdict. I think it's a great idea, personally and wonder why I didn't have it myself...It will make players burn through Favour to get 'that skill' on 'that guy who needs it'...It will slow down monster character models from being built within 3-5 games...and, my favorite, it will piss off the players, not being able to get 'that skill' when they need it...now that I've said it I'll never get a skill on any model above 2BP, just watch! really like this idea! 

13) The starting points are incorrect...not sure of the math currently but it will allow players to be lower than the stated 35...

Thank you Sir, for these helpful insights and questions. Hope they are answered to your satisfaction, if not ask again. 

[Dolmot]

Thanks. It's a good start. Let me return to a few points:

2) You got me here...poor wording on my part. The model will make a Move action (if not in base-to-base already), if this Move ends in base-to-base consider it a Charge.

Just to check: If he's already in close combat, does anything happen? (Doubled attacks, probably, but no round of combat?)

Also, it would be a good idea to define the exact relation of these two Action types. For example, do you have to declare one or another before taking an Action, or can they convert into each other "on the fly". It will probably make a difference at some point.

One more thing about this: Fear and Terror can trigger Frenzy in other models, while the moving model is completing its Move/Charge. What happens if an enemy model suddenly decides to charge a) the moving model or b) someone else? This may result in intercepted or failed Charges for the original model. Does this cause two rounds of fighting or possibly a failed Charge?

Or, if another friendly model Charges somewhere due to the moving model's Fear, does the original Move resume normally afterwards?

Or, what if the moving model itself is Human and suddenly fails its test in the middle of its move. Does the new Frenzy Move replace the rest of his current Action?

This whole rule seems to require some deeper explanation.

3) At the start of the Turn (when fighting Draws) the player with multiple models must choose one and gain the bonuses (+1 Attacks per additional model in base-to-base) from the others.

This is fine for the simple one-against-many case, but what about the 2-vs-2 example I mentioned?

5) the bonuses do stack. Likewise with natural armour (as a Fishman has).

OK. I just noticed that my other question is irrelevant, because Armour apparently does not do what it says in the book. The AP rule says "If the weapon is used against a target whose Armour has a Constitution bonus equal to or lower than the AP of the weapon, the Armour may be ignored --". The literal interpretation of this is that there's no effect if the Con bonus is higher. Should be rewritten.

6) [Duck/terrain/down saves etc.] No written 'official' rule on this one. At home we like to stack each applicable save.

This probably means the usual wargaming logic, where 6+6=5...or is it multiple Save rolls, one after another?

(Note regarding (7), Hybrids: First I thought this would make them a bit pointless in VUK, but being less Human than Cultists/Henchmen may be a good idea, when hideous and scary models are a lot more numerous.)

9) What Jnr said. They are not Unarmed and it counts as a weapon. Can be used with Two-Fisted.

Follow-ups: Can a biting model use three "weapons" and how? How many hands does Ghoul's "Claw/Bite" or other odd attack names take? Do Battle-Axe or 2-Handed Sword (duh) take two hands?

(About (12), randomised skill targets: It may be fair to include some option for altered Skill rolls for models who have already peaked. Maybe a better chance for RP/Favours instead?)


A few new observations:

14) I don't think Shooting into close combat is told anywhere in the books themselves.

15) The Cult Differential Table on p.30 is not entirely clear. I guess these bonuses are received after-game regardless of the result, but is it really so? The meaning of this column is not explained anywhere.

Right, going back painting...

[LidlessEye]

15) The Cult Differential Table on p.30 is not entirely clear. I guess these bonuses are received after-game regardless of the result, but is it really so? The meaning of this column is not explained anywhere.

Well this one I can tackle: the bonus points/favour are received prior to the game being played, and may immediately be spent on additional equipment, spells and models.

[Uncle Mike]

Hey Dolmot,

2) If already in close combat (base-to-base) the model will Frenzy.

I make checks as soon as they are relevant and apply the results then and there...then the turn continues as normal.

For simplicity the model that Frenzies will attack anything already in base-to-base, Move into base-to-base (treat as a Charge) or simply Move toward the enemy model (and remain Frenzied for the remainder of that turn...)

3) If both players have multiple models the same rules apply.

5) You can play as you like...it will most likely get a re-write in the second edition of Strange Aeons as I prefer the way I play it and ,like you say, not how it is written in the book.

6) Purposely left vague so players can decide amongst themselves...dependent on the scenery and table you are playing on really... Sort of a 'non-answer' I'm afraid.

9) Never thought of this...would say a model can only have two Close Combat and two Shooting weapons...including 'natural' weapons found on the starting profile.

14) You could be right...I'll need to do some reading it seems... At home I roll to hit and then randomize between models to see who was hit.

15) LidlessEye has this one correct. Further, the table is located in the Pre-Game Sequence...but a little more detail wouldn't hurt.

Keep 'em comin'. 

[zobo1942]

I have a funny question:

Are the VUK rules a replacement and upgrading to the rules in the 'Strange Aeons' sourcebook? From what I read in the VUK trial rules, VUK is called a 'new game'. Is it really a new game, or is it more of a 'expansion' to the core rules?

I'm just curious: Couldn't the government agents be treated like a 'cult' as well, but with a few restrictions?

I am still waiting for my SA sourcebook to arrive (I ordered it a few days ago), so if this is a silly question, please bear with me... I can't wait for it book to arrive!!

[LidlessEye]

No, it'll be a completely new standalone game using the same basic mechanics as Strange Aeons.  Any modifications we make in Kulten may find their way into Strange Aeons 2nd Edition (which is still several years away), but those changes look to be more explanatory/cosmetic than structural, and will be released in the form of an errata/FAQ long before 2nd Edition sees light of day.

Strange Aeons has always been intended as, and will continue to be, the campaign game for Threshold squads.  It came as something of a surprise to us that players were 'taking a side' and only fielding Lurkers, as that was never how we'd envisioned the game!  The intent was that each player would have a Threshold squad and take turns playing on each side of the cosmic battle.  Not saying everyone has to play it that way - once you've bought a copy, it's your game to play as you wish! - but it'll continue to be the way we develop it.  Hence, Kulten arose as an opportunity to build and develop a Lurker squad.  In Kulten, Threshold will effectively appear as a single-game 'cult' using the Alerting the Authorities rules, but this is the only way you'll see the good guys.  The scenarios are for the most part just too darned evil for Threshold to be participating in, and it doesn't make any sense to have them out collecting dark favour or sacrificing victims (which they'd be at an enormous disadvantage if they weren't allowed to do).