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Author Topic: The beginnings of my Third Crusade Army - Updated 17 Jun 2012  (Read 15543 times)

Offline Steve F

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Re: The beginnings of my Third Crusade Army - Richard I
« Reply #30 on: 14 November 2011, 01:07:48 PM »
No more samurai?

Back to the topic: I'm enjoying not just yur fine painting, Janner, but also the explanations of your colour and design choices.  Keep it coming, please?
Back from the dead, almost.

Offline janner

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Re: The beginnings of my Third Crusade Army - Richard I
« Reply #31 on: 14 November 2011, 01:20:05 PM »
No more samurai?

Back to the topic: I'm enjoying not just yur fine painting, Janner, but also the explanations of your colour and design choices.  Keep it coming, please?

This will be the last unit for now. Although I've another unit of knights, some crossbowmen, archers and character figures stood by, I've a promise to keep with a Samurai clan based and awaiting paint.

 lol lol lol

Offline janner

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Re: The beginnings of my Third Crusade Army - Richard I
« Reply #32 on: 14 November 2011, 01:22:38 PM »
Not crusaders, SAMURAI  ;D

The barding looks particularly good  8)

cheers

James

Yes, big hand to Soapy for kindly sculpting that for me - wait to you see what he did for the unit leader  :-*

Offline janner

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Re: The beginnings of my Third Crusade Army - Done for now!
« Reply #33 on: 27 November 2011, 11:31:37 AM »
With the standard completed I can now show the finished unit in all its glory:



Ten knights of Richard I’s household in Palestine c. 1191. Following-on from the information given on the heraldry of the royal liveried knight/serjeant and Roger de Harcourt, the unit is led by Stephen of Thornham (Turnham), royal marshal and brother to Robert, justiciar of the royal fleet and, then Cyprus. Due to Howden’s translation of his name into Latin (Stephanus de Toronis) being the same as Stephen de Tours, royal steward and former seneschal of Anjou, there has been some confusion as to whether they were one and the same chap. By studying witness lists in various charters, it can be established that they were clearly two separate characters – both of whom were with Richard in the Holy Land. I've taken a different approach to Stephen's caparison and inserted the same heraldry as the shield on a blue background - this is to compliment the heraldry I had chosen for Richard's household, which can be seen on the musician behind him (such as might be expected by a senior official of the royal household).



The standard is carried by Peter des Préaux, who is described as replacing Robert Trussebot for that task. To his right is his eldest brother John, lord of Préaux, and to his rear another brother and also a royal steward, Roger. As steward, Roger is keeping close eye on the trumpeter to ensure he follows the direction of the marshal. All three bear the heraldry of the des Préaux family - a gold eagle on a red background. A fourth brother, William des Préaux, gave himself up to the Muslims during a skirmish in September 1191 to allow the king to escape. One of Richard’s last acts in Palestine was to buy William’s freedom. The final brother, Engleraw, remained in the West as part of Prince John’s household. Finally, to the rear right is Gilbert Talbot, who was rewarded with the custodianship of the royal castle of Ludlow following his service with Richard in the Levant.

edit: spaces put in as it seemed a little crammed  ;)
« Last Edit: 27 November 2011, 11:51:13 AM by janner »

Offline janner

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Re: The beginnings of my Third Crusade Army - Done for now!
« Reply #34 on: 27 November 2011, 11:50:29 AM »
blush!

I forgot the unit leader ... Andrew de Chauvigny, cousin to Richard I and overseer of the regulations for the Third Crusade written in Messina in October 1190. He was given the hand of Denise, countess of Devon, daughter and heiress of Ralph VII de Deols by Richard I and married by bishop of Rochester in August 1189.



Andrew wasn’t the luckiest of chaps, he was unhorsed by William Marshall and severely broke his arm when Henry II's rearguard clashed with Count Richard's vanguard outside Le Mans in 1189. Then he broke it again whilst rescuing the earl of Leicester in Palestine in December 1191. However, he was certainly brave. His standard was one of the first raised above the walls of Darum during King Richard I's assault (22 May 1192) and he participated in repulse of Mamluk counter attack at Jaffa - one of only 10 with a horse (August 1192). Finally, in terms of the Third Crusade, he was the commander of first party of pilgrims to Jerusalem.

Rather than replicate the arms of his shield on the caparison, I have chosen to just use the red diamond symbol, which would be easy to distinguish on the battlefield and in line with representations of other caparisons from the period.

Offline OSHIROmodels

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Re: The beginnings of my Third Crusade Army - Done for now!
« Reply #35 on: 27 November 2011, 12:05:36 PM »
Cracking stuff Steve  :-*  :-* The history does lend a very realistic air to the whole bunch  :)

Now stop pissing around and get on with those samurai  ;D

cheers

James

Offline WuZhuiQiu

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Re: The beginnings of my Third Crusade Army - Done for now!
« Reply #36 on: 27 November 2011, 01:26:31 PM »
Brilliant work! What historical references would you recommend to those who might want to put a much history into their Crusader units as you have into this one?

Offline janner

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Re: The beginnings of my Third Crusade Army - Done for now!
« Reply #37 on: 27 November 2011, 03:15:02 PM »
Quote from: Bezzo
All that last knight does is establish this as a wonderful bunch of figures. The mud on the bottom of the horse caparison (?) is just great. Knockout painting guy. If I had a quarter of your skill I'd be happy.

Just some dappling of GW browns with an old brush for the mud - mind you, I nearly went cross-eyed doing the diamonds  lol lol lol

Brilliant work! What historical references would you recommend to those who might want to put a much history into their Crusader units as you have into this one?

There is more out there for the Second and Fourth Crusades with Jonathan Phillip's books a useful starting point in each case. While, Tom Asbridge's The Crusades – The War for the Holy Land majors on the Third Crusade, a modern history of the Third Crusade has yet to be published. This data all falls out of two year's research on Richard's household 1189-92. So it is all drawn from primary sources: narratives, verse and charter materiel. Bits will either published in the next year or so, or may await the final PhD (a study of participants on the Third Crusade), but I'm happy to share some of the results for your personal use.

I have a bit on the earl of Leicester's household (that unit will be painted up next year - yes, after the Sammies James), plenty more on Richard's and should be able to give you some strong pointers on the 'French'. Let me know what you are after by pm and we'll see what we can dig up between us.

Regards,
« Last Edit: 29 November 2011, 08:17:43 AM by janner »

Offline jamesmanto

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Re: The beginnings of my Third Crusade Army - Done for now!
« Reply #38 on: 27 November 2011, 03:23:11 PM »
 :o
Fek me those are brilliant!

Happens to be one of the eras i love too.

Offline killshot

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Re: The beginnings of my Third Crusade Army - Done for now!
« Reply #39 on: 27 November 2011, 04:36:21 PM »
 :-* :-* :-*  :-*Says it all!

Offline Arthur

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Re: The beginnings of my Third Crusade Army - Done for now!
« Reply #40 on: 27 November 2011, 06:26:16 PM »
Truly nice. Michael Perry needs to get back to his Crusades range and do some mid- to-late 12th century knights though... 

Offline galvinm

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Re: The beginnings of my Third Crusade Army - Done for now!
« Reply #41 on: 29 November 2011, 03:53:13 AM »
Awesome work. keep the updates coming.

Offline dijit

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Re: The beginnings of my Third Crusade Army - Done for now!
« Reply #42 on: 30 November 2011, 01:16:57 PM »
Beautiful work Stephen. They totally out shine any of WAB stuff.
Duncan

Offline janner

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Re: The beginnings of my Third Crusade Army - Done for now!
« Reply #43 on: 30 November 2011, 02:34:26 PM »
Beautiful work Stephen. They totally out shine any of WAB stuff.
Duncan

That'll be the gloss varnish on the armour  lol lol lol

okay, I'll get my coat ...

Offline Lowtardog

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Re: The beginnings of my Third Crusade Army - Done for now!
« Reply #44 on: 30 November 2011, 02:57:20 PM »
Stunning work :-*

 

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