New WW II game: Victory Decision: World War II

[Kieffer]

So, taking a not so popular nation for exemple, if i need a list of Finnish tanks with characteristics, would i need to buy the different Field Manuals (German and Soviet by exemple) or a special Finnish Field manual dedicated to this nation ?

[Foxxxy66]

Congrats Agis on your new venture. I have brought it and am reading through now. Kinda feels like a WaW second edition although you might baulk at that description!!!

Look forward to the supps.

[Foxxxy66]

oooh Agis...I have noticed that you have dropped the reaction system from WaW in VD ...mmm...why so?..now guys can run across a field with no interruption ala W40k style into close combat or that tank can cross a road junction and not get ambushed by the AT gun or a unit can fire three times (!) at an enemy unit before that unit can return fire!   I don't see this as a step forward in gameplay. 

[Agis]

oooh Agis...I have noticed that you have dropped the reaction system from WaW in VD ...mmm...why so?..now guys can run across a field with no interruption ala W40k style into close combat or that tank can cross a road junction and not get ambushed by the AT gun or a unit can fire three times (!) at an enemy unit before that unit can return fire!   I don't see this as a step forward in gameplay.  

LOL, the reaction system was simply not necessary anymore since you are alternating the unit activation.  
Please read chapter 5.1 Sequence of Play.
If you have any questions please ask!

During playtesting all the guys that came from Evo complained initially about it: "What no reactions!" But after 1 (!) all were convinced that the new activations system makes Reaction rules cumbersome and obsolete.
(BTW: That is only one of the points that make ViDe NOT a 2nd edition...)
 

[Agis]

So, taking a not so popular nation for exemple, if i need a list of Finnish tanks with characteristics, would i need to buy the different Field Manuals (German and Soviet by exemple) or a special Finnish Field manual dedicated to this nation ?

Hmm, depends.
I will start with the German book and probably follow up with Soviets.
Maybe we can work out which vehicles are needed for a Finnish list and I simply copy and paste a custom made Finnish Field Manual?
it would have all the texts and photos of the parent books, but you had all info in one book for a cheaper price.
Please keep this in mind and propose it again after both books are out.

BTW: 50% of the German book is done!

[Kieffer]

Thanks for the answer.

[Foxxxy66]

LOL, the reaction system was simply not necessary anymore since you are alternating the unit activation.  
Please read chapter 5.1 Sequence of Play.
If you have any questions please ask!

ok well I can move a unit 3 times across open ground in front of you and enter into close combat and you don't fire. In Waw assuming they still had a reaction they could fire when within 10".

Ok I can fire at you three times and you cannot respond. In Waw I would fire back as a reaction after you took your first fire.

Can't do either in ViDe. I don't see how alternate reactions compensates for that. WaW was actually pretty cool with reactions and alternate activation!

[Agis]

ok well I can move a unit 3 times across open ground in front of you and enter into close combat and you don't fire. In Waw assuming they still had a reaction they could fire when within 10".
Ok I can fire at you three times and you cannot respond. In Waw I would fire back as a reaction after you took your first fire.
Can't do either in ViDe. I don't see how alternate reactions compensates for that. WaW was actually pretty cool with reactions and alternate activation!

Well if you are not hidden and enable the enemy to be able to fire 3 times at you (remember, you can pre-measure, you can hide, you can Take Cover!) you got to be punished.
In addition if you are doing this your unit stands free and is not hidden, you are going to get some serious fire from my next action!
A normal sequence for infantry looks more like this: Spot the enemy, shoot, hide.
Or presuming the enemy is already spotted: Shoot, move hide.
Stuff like this. Many many actions are spend on hiding and spotting. That is one of the key design goals of ViDe: Seek out, fire and destroy.
ViDe plays totally different, you are constantly trying to outsmart your opponent, trying to hide your units while at the same time spot his units and fire at him.
Please remember also that in WaW you could only react ONE time, and the official version always was WITHOUT alternate activation...  

Please give it a try and let me know how it worked!

[Modhail]

Agis, I just bought the rules, I'm having a first read-through now.
I'm just wondering: to what degree are your previously published B:Evo supplements compatible with ViDe?

[Agis]

Agis, I just bought the rules, I'm having a first read-through now.
I'm just wondering: to what degree are your previously published B:Evo supplements compatible with ViDe?

They are NOT compatible.
If you know both rules well enough it is possible to "crossover" units, but as a rule of thumb, it's not...
Many Traits from WaW are not there or are different. Others are new for ViDe, some Dice mechanics, like the 2xDXH rule are completely new etc.

[Modhail]

Thanks for the quick response, Agis.
I suspected as much, but needed to make sure, before launching into a shopping spree. 
Being absolutely clueless about B:Evo, I'll wait for the ViDe supplements. (Still need to buy and/or paint the mini's I'd need for ViDe anyway...)

[Agis]

Thanks for the quick response, Agis.
I suspected as much, but needed to make sure, before launching into a shopping spree. 
Being absolutely clueless about B:Evo, I'll wait for the ViDe supplements. (Still need to buy and/or paint the mini's I'd need for ViDe anyway...)

Oh, damn I missed some sales! 
If you want to try the rules fast and affordable, go for 20mm!

[Rick]

I'm just wondering: to what degree are your previously published B:Evo supplements compatible with ViDe?

I know - I bought all 4 of Agis' Bf:Evo WaW vehicle books, now it looks like I'll be buying all the ViDe books as well, !

If you want to try the rules fast and affordable, go for 20mm!

Well, I've only got a 4' x 4' table at home, so I'm going to be playing in cm (1 inch = 1 cm) and using 15mm figures - it'll seem like a 10' square table then! 

I was concerned about the lack of reactions at first - until I re-read the Initiative rules, but honestly, I don't think the WaW reaction rule was THAT good. With ViDe - the Initiative roll will be incredibly tactical - you will want each of your units covering each other and providing overlapping fields of fire because you won't be able to guarantee that the next unit to move will be one of yours!
To my mind - Agis' initiative rules give a slightly faster, much more tactical feel and, dare I say - feel a bit more intuitive and "realistic". I think that once we've all played a couple of games it won't be an issue! 

[Rick]

Hmm, depends.
I will start with the German book and probably follow up with Soviets.
Maybe we can work out which vehicles are needed for a Finnish list and I simply copy and paste a custom made Finnish Field Manual?
it would have all the texts and photos of the parent books, but you had all info in one book for a cheaper price.
Please keep this in mind and propose it again after both books are out.

BTW: 50% of the German book is done!

I think the German and the US books might be the easiest to do! The Soviet one will be almost as complex as a Finnish one, with all the lend-lease equipment in it - take a look at this link: http://ww2total.com/WW2/History/Production/Russia/Lend-Lease.htm it's got a great summary of the types and numbers of vehicles shipped - they used almost 3 times as many M3A1 wheeled scout cars as M2-9 halftracks!

[Agis]

I was concerned about the lack of reactions at first - until I re-read the Initiative rules, but honestly, I don't think the WaW reaction rule was THAT good. With ViDe - the Initiative roll will be incredibly tactical - you will want each of your units covering each other and providing overlapping fields of fire because you won't be able to guarantee that the next unit to move will be one of yours!
To my mind - Agis' initiative rules give a slightly faster, much more tactical feel and, dare I say - feel a bit more intuitive and "realistic". I think that once we've all played a couple of games it won't be an issue! 

Thanks Rick, I couldn't sum it up better.
One thought on Reactions, Overwatch or whatnot. IMO these rule mechanics are necessary in a game system that defines a game into your turn /my turn activations (UGOIGO).
As soon as a game alternates unit activation they become pretty soon obsolete. In addition you have to worry about all the rules and clarifications what triggers an overwatch action, how and when is the overwatching unit reacting etc.
It just did not fit into the overall "user-friendly" design goal and feel of ViDe. We tried an Overwatch system once, basically a Command unit spend 2 actions and another unit goes into Overwatch. We pretty soon agreed that it just slows down the game and adds no fun.
I still remember when one of my playtesters reported the most sceptical “reaction-missing” players liked the now established system the most after just ONE game…