*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
February 08, 2023, 10:30:09 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Donate

We Appreciate Your Support

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 1618836
  • Total Topics: 113298
  • Online Today: 529
  • Online Ever: 1675
  • (December 28, 2020, 04:48:59 PM)
Users Online

Recent

Author Topic: Artizan FFL command packs/other future releases ?  (Read 22465 times)

Offline timg

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 416
Re: Artizan FFL command packs/other future releases ?
« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2011, 09:05:37 PM »
And as for time span well if you dont worry too much about weaponary or a couple of minor details then you can use these right up to the 1920's/30's. Looking forward to seeing the Tirraileurs, they seemed to have shared a lot of the Legions operations in Maroc so best consider a section of them too i guess.

Offline inkydave

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 532
  • Usuthu
Re: Artizan FFL command packs/other future releases ?
« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2011, 11:06:59 PM »
Found some pics of French troops in the Balkans and Dardanelles WW1 wearing sun helmet and shirtsleeves so those figs look to be usable till at least 1915/16. units/ type of troops unknown though :'( the pics came from "the war illustrated". superbly jingoistic,chauvanistic and slightly bonkers but sadly not very good at captioning). I have ordered 1 of each pack from the range and will post a mini review later if you will indulge me.
this pic is of troops training on Lemnos before the Allied invasion. Poor quality but some details seem to be discernable. Uncovered sun helmets,waist sash and possibly khaki trousers.
Minima maxima sunt

Offline inkydave

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 532
  • Usuthu
Re: Artizan FFL command packs/other future releases ?
« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2011, 11:08:44 PM »
The quality of the above photo is better than in "the war Illustrated". looks like khaki helmet covers as well

Offline Siaba

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 290
Re: Artizan FFL command packs/other future releases ?
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2011, 09:14:25 AM »
In my opinion, french infantry would never have gone to war in shirtsleeves. Greatcoat was the standart fighting dress during WW1  ;)
"The enemy? His sense of duty was no less than yours, I deem. You wonder what his name is, where he came from. And if he was really evil at heart. What lies or threats led him on this long march from home. If he would not rather have stayed there ... in peace. War will make corpses of us all."

Offline Mike Owen

  • Assistant
  • Posts: 26
Re: Artizan FFL command packs/other future releases ?
« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2011, 06:59:43 AM »
Fantastic photo! The sun helmeted figures would be fine for WW1, I will be doing a pack of greatcoated figures in sun helmets too. Just for the variety.

Offline pacofeanor

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 249
    • paco fait le zouave
Re: Artizan FFL command packs/other future releases ?
« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2011, 08:59:09 AM »
These photo looks like a drill session, as siaba said, during ww1 french troops never worn only shirts for battle, they have to wore great coats and sometimes during summer (and after spring 1915) they were allowed to fight with the jacket. (for summer great "offensives").

the sun halmet was worn for travels, march, but the steel helmet "adrian" was the only head gear for fighting after his arrival in september 1915 in France and later for Dardanelles.

Concerning the morrocan campaign, the use of kaky drill dress start in 1913 to 1931  for all "white"  troops (zouaves also !) with sun helmet and blue sash for FFL, BILA and zouaves. Even the "chasseurs d'afrique" wore it !

best regards
paco (my great great father was in marroco , gallipoli and Macedoine,  from 1913 to 1919!)

Offline timg

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 416
Re: Artizan FFL command packs/other future releases ?
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2011, 01:11:46 PM »

Interesting photo, got any more?

 Mike the sun helmeted troops in greatcoats would be very usefull. Will we be seeing any troops in the khaki drill tunic which started appearing before the great war?

Paco, would like to heard more about your great Grandfather!

Offline inkydave

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 532
  • Usuthu
Re: Artizan FFL command packs/other future releases ?
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2011, 08:38:44 PM »
Great news on the figs wearing capote and sun helmet :)
 Martin Windrow in 'Uniforms of the French Foriegn Legion-1831-1981' says that "a poor photograph taken on the beach at Sedd-ul-Bahr shows shows both khaki colonial helmets and khaki covered kepis." later quoting General Regnault who states that "the blue greatcoats worn over the khaki uniforms recieved for the Serbian campaign made a strange picture" We could spectulate that the Legionaires in the Dardanelles wore thier north African uniforms until re-organised and re supplied for thier deployment in Serbia where they recieved the new mustard khaki uniforms previously issued to African troops in Europe.
 The source for the above photo was this- www.gallica.bnf.fr  Search terms will need to be in French
(I use google translate to do the donkey work!!!)
The best photographic reference I have found for Legionaires in the period covered by Artizans releases is a postcard seller.His speciallity is French troops in Africa.hundreds and hundreds of inspirational pics. :o
www.abcdelacpa.com

Offline inkydave

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 532
  • Usuthu
Re: Artizan FFL command packs/other future releases ?
« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2011, 09:02:22 PM »
A couple more pics from the BNF. All of troops in the Dardanelles.
pic 1 is well known and shows the 75 crew in Colonial uniforms
pic2 is in the trenches at Sedd-ul-Bahr and is a mix of what looks like Greek and French officers.
Pics 3 and 4 are taken together. 1 is captioned as troops leaving for the front and the other troops leaving the front.(Google translate???)great mix of uniforms.sun helmet in evidence.
pic 5 shows a mix of Fench troops including some in African uniforms.again at Sedd-ul-Bahr.
pic 6 is some more wearing the colonial sun helmet in 1915 at Salonica, this time at an airfield.
If i get round to gaming Gallipoli I will take the risk in depicting my Legionaries in a mix of African and European togs. if its not totally correct i can live with it. Mikes figs look so damm good I wil lsqueeze them in anywhere I can!!! :D

Offline pacofeanor

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 249
    • paco fait le zouave
Re: Artizan FFL command packs/other future releases ?
« Reply #39 on: September 14, 2011, 02:18:50 PM »
hello, very nice photos!

the second show some french headquarter's officers, they are from artillery (they wear there dark blue with two red strips trousers) and they are not greek, they wear the 1892 "bonnet de police" wich shape  is called "serbian". It is worn by all troops and all ranks as "service or duty  cap".

For Gallipoli, you can use both sun helmet and kepis for FFL, and idem for infantry but with bleu horizon kepis ( 175 and 176 line regiments ) .

For these campaign, all troops received the kaki drill dress , a jacket and long pants in light kaki . And it is right that tehre is a photo off the landing of FFL (the only one i think!) and they are in kaki drill pants with dark blue coat .(april 1915)

The steel helmet apeared for the end of the campaign, after october 1915. at these ddate all metropolitan troops and colonial troops (including senegalese) are in blue "horizon" and all zouaves and tirailleurs algeriens in kaki "moutarde". The FFL is in blue "horizon" and received the kaki during the first monthes of 1916.

like in all countries, 1915 is a very complex year for uniforms and uniformity !!! with the mix of old paterns (pre-war) new paterns (very long to come in a significant number, especialy in Gallipoli a minor  front for the "general headquarter"!), and "herztats" patern (awaitings for the new paterns)

regards
paco


Offline timg

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 416
Re: Artizan FFL command packs/other future releases ?
« Reply #40 on: September 14, 2011, 03:02:35 PM »
The second from last is an interesting one, full of details. The men appear to be wearing the blue vestes and possibly red or covered red torusers? The guys in the lighter tunics with fezes or 'chechias' are Chasseurs de Afrique i think? Another unit i would like to see made by Mike.

Offline pacofeanor

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 249
    • paco fait le zouave
Re: Artizan FFL command packs/other future releases ?
« Reply #41 on: September 14, 2011, 08:24:49 PM »
you are right, they are "chasseur d'Afrique", they were only one squadron for the head quarter service (!!!) and they wear the pré-war jacket and red horse-pants "culotte"  with the typical red chechia with three black stripes!

Other soldiers are infantry men or artillery, with red pants (or dark blue iff artillery men ?), dark blue jacket "raz de cul" and horizon blue kepis! the 8th from left , just after the one on an amunition  box, seems to wear the blue over- trouser (blue drill pants over red or brown velvet pants ) this is typical of the 175° and 176° de ligne (as the horizon blue kepi !) from winter 1914 to winter  1915 for all french infantery as the new horizon blue was reseved for coats and kepis, not for trousers and jackets wich were old pré wars red trousers or erzats in velvet covered with this blue drill over -trouser !

I wonder iff they are changing their old pre-war dress for kaki drill clothing ??


my grand grand father was sergent and secretary of general Goureaud who commanded in chief the french expeditionary corps for several month before bieng wonded and loose his arm (the general not my ancestre!) My GGF follow the general since 1913 in marroco Champagne in december 1914 and Gallipoli in june 1915. He came back home in 1919, seven years of military duties instead of 36 month!!! he follow the french army in Macedonia (Salomique) to the end of the war.

He let me 600 photos, several medals and general Goureau's binoculars!  and his "road diary". only 6 had been taken from Gallipoli, all the other from Salonique!  it give a good idea of the hard fighting of this battle even for a man in the headquarter (remember there wer e no rear- front but leaving the peninsula for Moudros island! and some of the turcs offensives came to the subburbs of sedd ul Barr at the rear front and were stopped by head quarters troops, wounded soldiers cooks and disbanded unites!!.

His last words at the evening of his life were nightmares  from WWW1.
regards
paco
« Last Edit: September 14, 2011, 08:39:00 PM by pacofeanor »

Offline inkydave

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 532
  • Usuthu
Re: Artizan FFL command packs/other future releases ?
« Reply #42 on: September 14, 2011, 09:27:05 PM »
Thank you Paco, some great info.
The British and commonwealth troops for this campagne are becoming well represented in miniature form. sadly the other allied nations less so. This may be because of a lack of good reference for them in the english language.  By the way- the carte postale vendor linked above has some fantastic images taken in Morocco during the time your GGF was there. He may be pictured!!!

thanks-D




Offline inkydave

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 532
  • Usuthu
Re: Artizan FFL command packs/other future releases ?
« Reply #43 on: September 14, 2011, 10:43:02 PM »
Like this-

Offline Helen

  • The Grey Heron
  • Supporting Adventurer
  • Galactic Brain
  • *
  • Posts: 5795
Re: Artizan FFL command packs/other future releases ?
« Reply #44 on: September 14, 2011, 10:55:56 PM »
I do recommend this book:



From my library, but can be bought from Amazon very cheaply.

Cheers,

Helen
Best wishes,
Helen
Love many things, for therein lies the true strength, and whosoever loves much performs much, and can accomplish much, and what is done in love is done well (V van Gogh)

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
5 Replies
3160 Views
Last post September 25, 2007, 10:33:20 PM
by Ironworker
3 Replies
1795 Views
Last post March 03, 2009, 08:24:49 PM
by argsilverson
32 Replies
9087 Views
Last post September 06, 2011, 07:43:21 AM
by Shikari Sahib
3 Replies
1867 Views
Last post May 04, 2011, 08:31:30 AM
by carlos marighela
6 Replies
2326 Views
Last post July 20, 2015, 08:30:18 AM
by Atheling