A Rules Inquiry on Ammunition and Reloading

[fanfavorite]

I remember reading in Operator 5's early posts play testing games for the new 2nd edition there were some remarks on the new ammunition and reloading rules (correct me if I'm wrong), making it a lot more hectic when you run low and get yourself into a jam. Now I'm not going to bother (yet) finding the OP I'm alluding to, but it was this thought that made really want to get into the game. So I bought the pdf a couple months ago and now I'm working on a campaign and one scenario in par-tic.

Suffice to say I'm finding *nothing* in the 2nd rulebook on ammunition, clips, or reloading except for when you roll a 1 your gun either *jams* or needs to be *reloaded*. Can anyone point me in the right direction? I would hate for something like this to be omitted in the new edition... it just sounds too cool for school. And now especially that I'm designing a double-barreled shotgun (more d10 and possibly improved WS on a double trigger shot but with the need to reload after... or even just reloading after two shots in two consecutive turns...) I would be really disappointing to learn that now most guns just have "infinite ammo", if you'll allow me to refer to it as such. I was also going to incorporate a munitions stash on the table as an event marker for both the good guys and bad guys to re-up.

Anyway I won't make this any longer than it needs to, but please let me know what the current scoop on ammunition is in 2nd edition, and if it has been omitted any help on how to reincorporate it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks preemptively and a shout out to RatTrap for a seemingly AWESOME game!

[fanfavorite]

Looked for the post I was talking about, can't seem to find it. I remember it being with a house in the middle with either (as this is one of  two) a german occultist leading some nazi soldiers with a good old fashioned truck chase at the climax or a band of green robed cultists also centering around a house in the middle. Now I can't tell you if 2nd edition was referenced or not, but it did mention a change in rules regarding ammunition and reloading rules (making it more exciting, I remember that as it really sold on me!) and I take it that any *changes* have got to be post 1st ed., right?   

I think I'm starting to answer my own question as I scroll through the pdf more and more... bummer.   

[Christian]

I saw an idea that was in the great set of rules by PDE from Emrpess Minis found here:

http://www.empressminiatures.com/BCWRULES.pdf

That have the inclusion of "volleys" of fire that are generated before the game. So you would roll a dice and come up with "5" volleys... effectively 5 shots. You could then place amoo dumps or some such around the playing field and reload throughout the game.

How does that sound?

[Big Sexy]

IIRC, there were ammo boxes in 1st ED.  Every time you rolled the 1 you'd have to reload and check off a box.  You started with three I believe, but could purchase extra as part of character creation.  Pretty sure these are out in 2nd Ed, but you should be able to work them back in.

[fanfavorite]

All great ideas for a starting point, but tell me fellas if you're familiar with this one. There was an older gentlemen poster, not a frequent one, who showcased a battle, Indiana Jones themed game for a con. Now here's the real cool part, he had wooden clips made up with real bullets in them and when you fired a shot, or a volley, you would toss the casings on the table. Reloading would be as simple as filling back up the clip. This is the style I want to incorporate, but any help with the actual magazine size or holdings on pulp era weapons out there? I'm sure it would be easy to google, or just check some existing firearms out there like the colt .45. I could see this only being used for hero or grade 3 characters and perhaps incorporating that volley system or the 1st ed. clip size for the supporting cast and minions. It might be too cluttered to have say 20+ wooden boxes with piles of ammo all over the table for a big game!

I appreciate your thoughts, I'll look into them.


Keep any others coming!

[DD-Chris]

i remember the topic with those wooden ammo clips, they were epic. and IIRC he sells them as well ( a bit pricey for wood and spent brass, but still prety epic)
As far as pulp era weapons, i picked up different dice to represent ammo spent.
D6 for a revolver
D8 for a automatic pistol
D20 for SMGs
nice, easy, and clean. the ammount of D10 you roll for the attack, is the number of "shots fired"

[Ssendam]

As I understand it, ammunition has just been revised so that it's not an item that the player has to think much about. If you roll a "1" then you are out of ammo or your gun has jammed and you have to spend an action to clear the jam/reload.

Personally I think it's in keeping with the Pulp nature of the game, (do they EVER run out of ammo?). However, I'm running a scenario where supplies are limited so I'm not sure if i should keep track of ammo or not. I think it's easy to do and those brass shells in the wooden bocks are awesome. I think if I do use it I might try and get hold of some used .22 ammo brass shells as I think they might go well on a tabletop.

[fanfavorite]

i remember the topic with those wooden ammo clips, they were epic. and IIRC he sells them as well ( a bit pricey for wood and spent brass, but still prety epic)

they were weren't they? I know some metal workers and carpenters I want to see if I can't wrangle out some of my own, or just go to the source. merely as a way to support a great idea. for their incorporation though how do you feel about my comment on it being overkill? with ten models on the table that's a lot of room just for clips and spent shells. maybe just for hero characters, and here's the segway (dice for grade 1 and 2)...

As far as pulp era weapons, i picked up different dice to represent ammo spent.
D6 for a revolver
D8 for a automatic pistol
D20 for SMGs
nice, easy, and clean. the ammount of D10 you roll for the attack, is the number of "shots fired"

I like this idea. Keeping a dice on their reference sheet to represent ammo. One more question to clarify your suggestion though- (assuming this is for .45 adventure) Would you allow someone to fire off all 20 dice for an smg (ouch!) for just one turn of reloading? Or still just the maximum number of dice allowed by the gun's stat line. While the latter may sound nerfy it could be a good way to represent "turn time", i.e. is a guy really gonna get off 20 shots without the other guy firing off shots of his own? Therefore the exchange is perfectly suited to a max number of a dice a "shot", a "turn". Anyway I'm sorry, I'm merely thinking out loud- I doubt I can offer any new suggestions to the veterans I'm calling in for new suggestions. ha.

thanks though!

[fanfavorite]

Personally I think it's in keeping with the Pulp nature of the game, (do they EVER run out of ammo?).

no, I guess not.

However, I'm running a scenario where supplies are limited so I'm not sure if i should keep track of ammo or not. I think it's easy to do and those brass shells in the wooden bocks are awesome. I think if I do use it I might try and get hold of some used .22 ammo brass shells as I think they might go well on a tabletop.

try it out, why not? I now realize I misread Operator5's posts on the new edition's ammo rules- but for some reason the notion of running out of ammo, both hero and villain tossing guns aside, breaking into a full stride at each other to engage in a lengthy bloody brawl was too good to pass up! And likewise for terrain style encounter locations, you now have a perfectly good excuse for big crates of bullets and guns. Maybe even throw in some extra goodies possibly dependent on the one successful scenario win (like dynamite) to be found only when the characters run out of ammo and need to find more? My game won't be getting off for a while now, so I'd be interested to know how something like this works out.

[DD-Chris]

when using the .45 rules, i simply modify the dice by the number of D10 thrown during the attack BEFORE modifyers. if the base value of a shotgun at close range is 3d10, you spend 3 shells. if at long range, its 1d10. or -1 to your ammo dice.

when i play .45 modifyed, i use a single dice for attacks, and each 'shot fired' simply increases your d10 score by 1. in THAT scenario, i would let the guy fire off all 20 shots, for several reasons, only 1 hit can be scored. i limit ammo to 1-2 reloads ( before encounter supplies ) and it makes the game VERY interesting. a guy with a drum mag fed Thompson firing into our hero SHOULD BE EPIC !