Cheating on the British with the Foreign Legion

[gloriousbattle]

In the later (khaki) period of colonial Africa, how close are the pith helmets of the British and the FFL?  Could figures of the one substitute for the other?  Any major differences in the uniforms otherwise?

I can't find much in the way of images outside of Tanzanica http://www.tanzanica.com/Powers/Legion1.htm and, though great fun, that game isn't terribly historical.

[Hobbit]

Well, you could try doing a Google on the British in the 2nd Anglo-Boer War, that would give you a good idea on what the British looked like. The British didn't really use regulars in Africa during the khaki era other than the Sudan (1894/5 & 1898) and the Boer War (1899-1902).

I'm not entirely sure from your post which nationality you're planning to use for which.

Taking a quick look at the FFL pictures you've posted then probably about the only thing they do have in common is an approximate helmet shape.

Isuppose a great deal depends on what it is you want to do - a fuller explanantion might help.

[Arthur]

In a nutshell : nope, unless you don't care one bit for uniform accuracy.

Pretty much everything about late 19th century British infantrymen is wrong for the FFL : different rifle, different accoutrements. The puttees are also wrong as most French colonial infantry used either high gaiters or low anklet gaiters. If you really want to get into late C19th French colonial forces, have a look at Mike Owen's Dixon Dahomey range or his more recent Artizan March or Die figures, which have the right uniforms and equipment.

[gloriousbattle]

[Shrugs] I'm usually pretty happy if I have the right colors and the hat is the right shape.

[Patrice]

The British pith helmet looks a bit less round than the French in front of the eyes of the wearer, it has a sharper angle. But you can ignore this small difference if you don't mind.

[inkydave]

If its just helmets then the trick would be to depict them covered. The French helmet cover had a single seam running along the middle front to back. Empress does some great seperate heads in the Zulu war range which could be of use once shown the greenstuff. Due to the under barrel magazine the Lebel has a disinctive look and hard to find a doppleganger for. The French water bottle/canteen also is a one off. I have to agrre with Arthur. Sadly not do-able. I also want FFL in 1901 pattern khaki and I thought of converting some of Mike Owens sculpts but have chickened out
 If you were to convert the Artizan FFL the ones in helmets and fatigue blouse would be the best bet. The collar needs converting. Then the sleeve cuffs need doing. Next would be to add skirts to depict a jacket. The problem for me is the waist sash. It was worn over the blouse and coat but not the tropical pattern jacket!! It would need removing, possibly damaging sculpted on detail we want to keep. The easiest conversion is to extend the trouser legs down on French colonial infantry,(troupes de la marine), but I have yet to find any of them I like the look of.
Get some Artizan figs in helmet and blouse and paint the pants and helmet a light sandy khaki. remember its hot and they have taken their jackets off. thats what I'm gonna do.

[Arthur]

[Shrugs] I'm usually pretty happy if I have the right colors and the hat is the right shape.

Then you've pretty much answered your own question, havent you ?

[Hobbit]

I'm stil not clear on what it is that you want to do? Are you trying to use FFL as British or British as FFL? A clear explanantion of what yo uhave in mind might solicit a more useful reply.

In 25/28mm there are at least 2 reasonable ranges of late French out there that I know of Dixon and Artizan. If it is British that you want, then the Foundry Boer War figures are good, but currently out of production. Alternatively you could look at the perry's Sudan range - possibly the Brits in Indian pattern kit would do the job. If you're looking at the cheap and cheerful end of the price range then there is Old Glory.

Is this linked to your post about Waima? In which case you are probably barking up the wrong tree altogether -  for that you'll probably want Askari types which you'll find in Foundry's darkest Africa range.

[gloriousbattle]

If its just helmets then the trick would be to depict them covered.

Hadn't thought of that.  Might be a relatively easy conversion.  Thanks.

Then you've pretty much answered your own question, havent you ?

Not really.  I'm still not sure if the helmet is the right shape.  

I'm stil not clear on what it is that you want to do? Are you trying to use FFL as British or British as FFL? A clear explanantion of what yo uhave in mind might solicit a more useful reply.

British as FFL.  FFL figures of this type in 15mm seems almost impossible to find.

In 25/28mm there are at least 2 reasonable ranges...

Not my scale.  This is also one of the reasons I prefer 15 to 25/28 (not trying to start a scale war; my reasons need not apply to others).  In this smaller scale, you can cheat more, and small details, like the width of the pocket or the shape of the buttons don't matter so much.

Is this linked to your post about Waima? In which case you are probably barking up the wrong tree altogether -  for that you'll probably want Askari types which you'll find in Foundry's darkest Africa range.

Separate thought altogether.  I already have some nice Askaris.

[inkydave]

Gloriousbattle. I was thinking only of 28mm. Forget 15mm and go for 20mm. B&B miniatures do a large range of FFL in 20mil. Machine guns, mule company, artillery and infantry all in either kepi,covered kepi or khaki and PITH HELMET. Also archaeologists,oil rig workers and a whole host of enemies for your French. A great range. Also turcos and zouaves in the FPW range.


they may have what you want........good hunting

www.bandbminiatures.co.uk

[Hobbit]

Must admit I don't do 15mm - personally I find them just as much work as 25/28mm and much less satisfying. Just a personal opinion. Hence I don't know what is out there in 15mm-land.

[gloriousbattle]

Gloriousbattle. I was thinking only of 28mm. Forget 15mm and go for 20mm. B&B miniatures do a large range of FFL in 20mil. Machine guns, mule company, artillery and infantry all in either kepi,covered kepi or khaki and PITH HELMET. Also archaeologists,oil rig workers and a whole host of enemies for your French. A great range. Also turcos and zouaves in the FPW range.


they may have what you want........good hunting

www.bandbminiatures.co.uk

Thanks, but I got out of wargaming about ten years ago, and got back in seven years ago.  When I returned to the hobby, I decided I would do one scale only.  More than one is, to me, duplication of effort and a waste of resources.  What is the point of having a  15mm, 20mm and 25mm castle?

So, after much thought, I decided 15mm was the scale for me, and never looked back.

Again, not trying to start a war?  Is 15mm the best scale?  Is it a good idea to game in more than one scale?  Those are matters of personal choice.

[gloriousbattle]

Here is an example of what I'm talking about.  Though many details are different, most British troops of the period could be painted up in the same color scheme, and, IMHO would look close enough.

[Arthur]

You pays your money and you makes your choice, as they say...

[Earther]

Here is an example of what I'm talking about.  Though many details are different, most British troops of the period could be painted up in the same color scheme, and, IMHO would look close enough.

What about Peter Pig's WW1 French (Square Bashing rules) or WW2 French (PBI range)? I know they do seperate kepi blanc heads in their Heads & Odds range. I'd imagine there are pith helmets in there too.

http://www.peterpig.co.uk/index.html