The Peoples and Creatures of Middle Earth,5th Round,LPL6 ?

[FramFramson]

There is little evidence that winged or horned helmets were used in any other function than ceremonial in the ancient age. Vikings adorned their helmets no more with that than they did with bananas.

Even in Roman times they seem to have been a bit of a theatrical attribute, something to clad images of Gods and exotic persons with.

This is absolutely correct. Winged helmets were not really something worn in battle! I was only pointing out that regionally, they were more of a northern thing than a southern.

[area23]

In any case, I decided this week that my Dunlendings are going to be Crusader Miniatures' byzantine Varangians in full armour. I think they should fit well with the Grenadier half-orcs/uruk hai I posted before.
I've been searching for the right miniatures to represent Dunlendings for years and all the ancient germans, picts and irish just were missing something.

[Arthadan]

And I'm with you Richard (and Lars). Could not have said it better myself Tolkien was creating a myth cycle based on either history or the myths of other countries,for instance The Children of Hurin is in some ways a retelling of the Kalevala.
    So Elves do not have pointy ears,nor in my mind do they use pseudo katanas/naginatas. And if you read some early works Elves sometimes wore beards (Beleg Strongbow),Cirdan certainly did. As for Legolas being blonde phhhhth!
 And the best miniature ranges for Elves? Well I go for Red Box Games,however Tre needs to sculpt a few more chaps. Thunderbolt Mountain do a couple of nice minis,they can be a little flouncy......

We have letter speaking about how Hobbits look like:

I picture a fairly human figure, not a kind of 'fairy' rabbit as some of my British reviewers seem to fancy: fattish in the stomach, shortish in the leg. A round, jovial face; ears only slightly pointed and 'elvish'; hair short and curling (brown).
Tolkien letter #27 To the Houghton Mifflin Company (March or April 1938)

Taking this quote in consideration, I'd say Elvish ears are pointy ('elvish' meaning here as 'those of the Elves', which therefore should also be pointy as Hobbit's).

Anyway I'd love to see a quote proving me wrong instead of what people think/like. If you are nerdy enough, that is 

About immortal Orcs of Maiar origin:

[footnote to the text] Boldog, for instance, is a name that occurs many times in the tales of the War. But it is possible that Boldog was not a personal name, and either a title, or else the name of a kind of creature: the Orc-formed Maiar, only less formidable than the Balrogs.

History of Middle-Earth vol. X - Morgoth's Ring

I know it's only a possibility, but not too far-fetched.

[Arthadan]

In any case, I decided this week that my Dunlendings are going to be Crusader Miniatures' byzantine Varangians in full armour. I think they should fit well with the Grenadier half-orcs/uruk hai I posted before.
I've been searching for the right miniatures to represent Dunlendings for years and all the ancient germans, picts and irish just were missing something.

Well, I doubt they have the technical level for such armours. But since you are going to mix them with Half-orcs, I assume they're for Saruman's army. So it would be ok they have access to some sophisticated heavy armour beyond the reach of the "average" Dunlendings.

So far I think (just my personal opinion) than they're close to Picts than to Celts in look and culture.

[Hammers]

We have letter speaking about how Hobbits look like:
Taking this quote in consideration, I'd say Elvish ears are pointy ('elvish' meaning here as 'those of the Elves', which therefore should also be pointy as Hobbit's).

Anyway I'd love to see a quote proving me wrong instead of what people think/like. If you are nerdy enough, that is 

About immortal Orcs of Maiar origin:

I know it's only a possibility, but not too far-fetched.

'Letters' is a very interesting book, in which you also can read, in the post-LotR portion if I remember correctly, that dwarf women had beards. Oh, that someone would make something out of that and a set of Hasslefrees for LPL6R10.

[FramFramson]

Well, I doubt they have the technical level for such armours. But since you are going to mix them with Half-orcs, I assume they're for Saruman's army. So it would be ok they have access to some sophisticated heavy armour beyond the reach of the "average" Dunlendings.

So far I think (just my personal opinion) than they're close to Picts than to Celts in look and culture.

I'm fairly certain that they're described somewhere as almost exactly that. Essentially barbarous peoples who have gradually absorbed some Rohirrim customs and technology on the borders, but largely tribal or clannish. Picts/Celts is apt (especially since the Rohirrim are based partially on old English/Saxon types, with some horse-lovin' mixed in).

For whatever it's worth, most artists have also depicted Dunlendings as Pictish or Celtic as well.

[area23]

Exactly that. Possibly West Wind Picts might work. I don't like the BTD and Foundry ones.

Indeed, the armoured Varangians would represent an elite unit armed by Saruman, and the style of the sculpts is close enough to Copplestone's Half Orcs.
 

[Captain Blood]

'A round, jovial face; ears only slightly pointed and 'elvish'; hair short and curling (brown)'.
Tolkien letter #27 To the Houghton Mifflin Company (March or April 1938)

Taking this quote in consideration, I'd say Elvish ears are pointy ('elvish' meaning here as 'those of the Elves', which therefore should also be pointy as Hobbit's).

Hmmm. Not convinced I'm afraid.
I don't know for certain of course - then again, nor does anyone else - what Tolkien meant by this.
But my guess would be that when he talks about pointy ears being 'elvish' (note his inverted commas), he's referring to the popular image of elves, pixies and sprites in early C20th children's literature, where they are invariably portrayed as pointy-eared little imps. Hence the reference to 'fairy rabbits' too.
He's saying that hobbits might have a hint of pixie-ness about the ears - but they should not to be thought of as diminutive fairies from the bottom of the garden...
I don't think he is talking here about his own concept of elves as a kind of higher race of beautiful, human-sized, human-looking immortals.
More akin to angels I suppose... (only sans wings  )

[Doomhippie]

Hmmm. Not convinced I'm afraid.
I don't know for certain of course - then again, nor does anyone else - what Tolkien meant by this.
But my guess would be that when he talks about pointy ears being 'elvish' (note his inverted commas), he's referring to the popular image of elves, pixies and sprites in early C20th children's literature, where they are invariably portrayed as pointy-eared little imps. Hence the reference to 'fairy rabbits' too.
He's saying that hobbits might have a hint of pixie-ness about the ears - but they should not to be thought of as diminutive fairies from the bottom of the garden...
I don't think he is talking here about his own concept of elves as a kind of higher race of beautiful, human-sized, human-looking immortals.
More akin to angels I suppose... (only sans wings  )

That would be my take on the matter as well. I admit I'm just too lazy to really go looking for any texts now. And honmestly, the good Professor did contradict himself once in a while, especially when he started to give earlier concepts a work-over. That leaves us to a certain way free to choose our picture. The Silmarillion seems to be the text Tolkien's son, who was "deep in [his father's] council" decided to come closest to the original idea. However, as various other published texts now prove, that is only one possible interpretation of the world.

In the end we are of course free to let our own imagination roam. If I am somewhat of a nerd when it comes to what is "Tolkienesc" and what isn't, shouldn't keep others from having a completely different approach. Though I do admit that the Warhammer-style is about as far away from what I have in mind when thinking of Middle-Earth. And still: No pointy ears for elves! 

[area23]

If I am somewhat of a nerd when it comes to what is "Tolkienesc" and what isn't [...]

It's not like you're the only one, on this forum or beyond! 

[FramFramson]

As much as I'm not really a fan of the movies, I think they treated the issue of Elvish ears well with a sort of compromise: They were pointed, but in a very reduced way that was barely different than human ears. 

[Doomhippie]

As much as I'm not really a fan of the movies, I think they treated the issue of Elvish ears well with a sort of compromise: They were pointed, but in a very reduced way that was barely different than human ears. 

I agree with that. The ears could have been so much worse. And I guess in movies you need the ears to show the difference from humans as the actors are really humans (well, I'm not sure about Liv Taylor but that's a different story...).

[Blackwolf]

Time I updated this thread......With Elves!

 Although (yet again) have distinct views on how Elves are dressed and arrayed for battle ,what do you think?
    For me high Elves (the Noldor) would have the look of Norman knights with an distinct Celtic cast about them,Sindarin Elves would be similar,perhaps a little less heavily armoured and more woodsie(sic). It always strikes me in Tolkiens works where it is described what weapons Elves use; spears,long swords(not the pseudo Japanese weapons in the films), bows (remember they had horse archers,in the First Age anyway,no doubt later on too) and axes! Not usually depicted on  minis (though I have some old Citadel sculpts with 'Dane axes').
    This is perhaps a moot point as I have selected my Elves for round 5 (Redbox Games).So opinions,thoughts,why are Elves often depicted in metal (and plastic form) as being a bit naff?

 Cheers

 Wolfie

 PS DH love the new avatar

 

[Doomhippie]

Thx, Blackwolf... me at the tender age 25 as a a student at the University of Wisconsin... 

To your question: looking at the texts about the First Age I notice how much more powerful and threatening the Elves and particularly the Lords of the Noldor are described. Somewhere we can read about Feanor and his sons having cruel spears, swords and axes. The word cruel does give us a hint that besides looking fair the weapons and armor of these people definetely weren't toys or some ornamental weapons but used to smash, maim, cut and pierce their enemies.
I am heavily influenced by an old book by David Day called "A Tolkien Bestiary". In there you can find drawings and scetches of Elves and in armor they actually do look a lot like old Norman Knights (hehe and No pointy ears!). That is basically how I picture them in battle. The problem I see is more the general tendency of miniature makers to overdo weapons. Battleaxes very often are so big that they are actually better for smashing things to a pulp rather than cutting someone. And that to me seems to be an important issue: how to translate the word "cruel weapon" into a fitting model on a miniature.

[Blackwolf]

I had that book too,great John Blanche and Ian Miller illustrations. And yes I agree,they need to be sculpted as more 'noble',and can you sculpt hubris (the Noldor). When I think of Thingol,I always think of King Lear...