Picking the right Civil War

[Leapsnbounds]

I am currently at an impasse.  I am at an impasse about a Civil War to choose (Russian Civil War or Spanish Civil War)  I am a cavalry man, but I like funky tanks.  There seems to be more literature about the Spanish Civil War available and I would like to know if the Anglican Miniatures are compatible with the Brigade Games WWI figures, Artizan, and Cobblestone Figures.
  Will the Russsian Civil War Figures of Cobblestone work well with the Brigade Games Russian Civil War and WWI figures for the that conflict?
  What books are available about the Russian Civil War?  I've only heard about the Ice March in passing, but are there any books about it?  With the prices of figures nowadays, I would like to get it right.  Is there any hope for a confused wargamer such as myslef out there.  I would appreciate all the help I can get.
  Thank you Comrades.

[Poliorketes]

For RCW I recommend fiction, Dr. Schiwago or the silent Don.
If you want tanks and cavalry, I guess the crimean front of the RCW would be right. There you can use Mk V, FT17,  lots of armored cars, armored trains and cavalry, of course.

For SCW there is not that much cavalry, but even more armored cars and tanks plus air combat. No armored trains, though.

The  RCW has one advantage over the SCW - you have many more factions than in SCW. Reds, Whites in all colours, Basmachis of Turkestan, Finns, Balts, Polish, British, French, US, Japanese, Chinese, Mongols...

[Captain Blood]

God, yes. Russian civil war every time - so much more 'romance', colour, and general weirdness. Such a vast and varied canvas. So many factions.

Spanish civil war - just drab grimness, futility, lost ideals and general depression.

This analysis has zero basis in history of course. I'm sure in reality both were utterly vile conflicts in which millions of misguided souls were brutally slaughtered for something they either misguidedly believed in, or more likely, barely understood.

But for pure dash, drama, and asthetic and visual appeal, RCW every time.

Obviously, the civil war which games best of all is the ENGLISH civil war - but alas, sans tanks, armoured cars or locomotives.  :wink:

[Durutti]

SCW drab grimness!!!

I don;t think so,

www.requetes.com

plenty of colour and passion with these fellows.

pick a faction, or political leaning, and theres one there for you

Anarchists, Marxists, Facists, Communists, Royalist & Religious Nutters (Carlist Requetes), Colonial Troops(Moroccans), International Brigades, Condor Legion, CTV (Italians) Spanish Foreign Legion, Basques,Guardia Civil,Assault Guards,Carabineros theres a wealth of choice.

You can battle it out in the cities, Madrid being especially brutal, or across the countryside.

Plus you get the tanks, armoured cars, improvised armoured vehicles, aircraft and yes they do have armoured trains as well

http://www.sbhac.net/Republica/Fuerzas/Armas/Otras/Otras.htm

scroll down a little way, and there they are.

Figures, there are Anglian Miniatures, and I have to admit a bias, because its my company!! Force of Arms, Northstar do a couple of nice Anarchist figures, and later on Artizan will be producing some figures as well. all of which will match up perfectly. unlike the Copplestone figures, which stand head and shoulders above the other ranges.

Next year (2008) Anglian's range will grow again, and I won;t be doing anything else until the SCW range is complete.
First releases of 2008 will be Pz1a tank, BT5 tank (in conjunction with Chieftain Models), Assault Guards 3 packs, and a pack of Soviet Advisors

If anyone wants a catalogue list, and a few samples, drop me a PM with an address, and I'm happy to send some out to you.

Nigel H
Anglian Miniatures

[area23]

Both, really.
And the German revolution. Spartakists,  the Ruhr People's Army etc. Vs the Weimar Reichswehr, police, and various Freikorps with armoured cars and captured tanks from various fronts.
Overlaps the RCW too as there were Freikorps in Latvia and other places bordering Russia

Only for the revolutionaries you'll have to do conversions...

True Copplestone towers over Anglian and Brigade. Very unfortunate as all are very nice figs. All work well enough in seperate units though, if you're not too picky.

[Leapsnbounds]

Thank you for your input.  This is really a great discussion to the uninitiated. If you can recommend any books (especially about the R.C.W. as I have a number of S.C.W.) That would really be helpful.  I finally got through "Pan's Labyrinth", whew!  what a tribute to Salvador Dali.

[Maichus]

A real good read on the RCW in general is A People's Tragedy: The Russian Revolution: 1891-1924, pretty bulky though... I broke the read down into several parts, that interested me, at a time.   :roll:

[Durutti]

Thank you for your input.  This is really a great discussion to the uninitiated. If you can recommend any books (especially about the R.C.W. as I have a number of S.C.W.) That would really be helpful.  I finally got through "Pan's Labyrinth", whew!  what a tribute to Salvador Dali.

There is a really good internet site about the RCW, something to do with the Red Actions ruleset, i'll see if I can track it down for you

I've found it!!

http://pygmy-wars.50megs.com/

worth a look

Damn, just realised, i'm cutting my own throat by sending you there

[warrenpeace]

I am currently at an impasse.  I am at an impasse about a Civil War to choose (Russian Civil War or Spanish Civil War)  I am a cavalry man, but I like funky tanks.  
  Thank you Comrades.

Check out this thread from the WW1 / WW2 topic (most of the SCW stuff on Lead Adventures is under the WW1 / WW2 forums):

http://forum.backofbeyond.de/viewtopic.php?t=561&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Most of the RCW stuff is under the "Back of Beyond" forum.  So check out this thread:

http://forum.backofbeyond.de/viewtopic.php?t=1510&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Some of my friends game SCW in 20mm.  They often use cavalry.  The stuff coming out now for both SCW and RCW in 28mm is fantastic.  I would suggest doing both, and trying to use a single set of rules.

If you are interested in a setting for Pulp adventure during the age of communist revolution, you could have your characters engage in both the RCW and SCW, and have them engage the conflicts in Germany and China.  You could eventually also have some intrigues and violence set in Italy, Ireland, and France.  You only need a few figures to do this for Pulp, and you can develop a story line that lasts for 30 years.

[Helen]

Hi, Here are a few more links for the RCW period:

Soviet Snipes
http://www.cbrnp.com/profiles/quarter1/soviet-snipes.htm

Polar Bears
http://polarbears.si.umich.edu/

White Uniforms
http://www.thetankmaster.com/english/afv/white.asp

Russian Intervention
http://www.kolchak.org/History/Siberia/russian_intervention.htm

The Jackson Gamers'Period for the RCW
http://www.angelfire.com/games3/jacksongamer/reds.htm

The Russian Revolution
http://www.barnsdle.demon.co.uk/russ/rusrev.html

Gauntlet International
http://www.gauntletinternational.com/

RCW Yahoo group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RussianCivilWar/

Brigade Games For your RCW Figures
http://www.brigadegames.com/

Company B (for all your other RCW needs) Note: you can also buy these though Brigade Games
http://homepage.mac.com/brentdietrich/companyB.htm

This is just some of the links that you can utilise.

The Perfect Captain Rules
http://perfectcaptain.50megs.com/redactions.html

If I get time today I'll provide a list of books etc for you.

Best Wishes

[warrenpeace]

Brigade Games For your RCW Figures
http://www.brigadegames.com/

Very true.  But if you have the pounds to spend, add some Copplestones for variety:

http://www.copplestonecastings.co.uk/range.php?range=BOB

Wouldn't want to do RCW without a pack of those Copplestone "Bolshevik Heroines."

[Helen]

Hi, Here is a book list of my collection for the period (this includes Russo-Polish War etc). Its by no means complete but I'm working on it over time.

The Origins of the RCW by Geoffrey Swain
Russian Hussar A story of the Imperial Cavalry, 1911-1920 by Vladimir Littauer
‘The Republic of the Ushakovka’ Admiral Kolchak and the Allied Intervention in Siberia 1918-20 by Richard Connaughton
The Path of Valour by Semyon Budyonny Marshall of the Soviet Union
Handbook of the Russian Army 1914 Imperial War Museum (The Battery Press)
With the “Die-Hards” in Siberia by Colonel John Ward
Over the Balkans and South Russia, 1917-1919 Being the History of No 47 Squadron Royal Air Force by HA Jones MC
The White Generals An Account of the White Movement and the Russian Civil War by Richard Luckett
The White Armies of Russia by George Stewart
The Czar’s British Squadron by B Perrett & A Lord
An American Naval Diplomat in Revolutionary Russia by Charles J Weeks Jr
General Weygand and the Battle of the Vistula – 1920 by Zdzislaw Musialik
Allied Intervention in Russia 1818-1919 and the Part Played by Canada by John Swettenham
White Russian Awards by Ray Brough
Baltic Assignment British Submariners in Russia 1914-1919 by Michael Wilson
From Tsar to Soviets The Russian people and their Revolution, 1917-1921 by Christopher Read
Reminiscences of a Russian Pilot Gatchina Days by Alexander Riaboff von Hardesty, Editor
The Career of a Tsarist Officer Memoirs, 1872-1916 by Anthony I Denikin
Armed Intervention in Russia 1918-1922 by WP Coates and Zelda K Coates
Civil War in Siberia The Anti-Bolshevik government of Admiral Kolchak 1918-1920 by Jonathan D Smele
From Double Eagle to Red Flag by PN Krassnoff
America’s Siberian Adventure 1918-1920 by W S Graves
Tales of Sub-Lieutenant Ilyin by FF Raskolnikov
Farewell to the Don The Russian Revolution in the Journals of Brigadier HNH Williamson
Stamping Out the Virus Allied Intervention in the RCW 1918-1920 by Perry Moore
The Russian Army and the First World War by Nik Cornish
Setting the East Ablaze On Secret Service in Bolshevik Asia by Peter Hopkirk
The Fate of Admiral Kolchak by peter Fleming
The Diggers who signed on for more Australia’s part in the Russian War of Intervention, 1918-1919 by Bruce Muirden
The Day we almost Bombed Moscow The Allied War in Russia 1918-1920 by Christopher Dobson and John Miller
At War with the Bolsheviks The Allied Intervention into Russia 1917-1920 by Robert Jackson
General Wrangel 1878-1929 Russia’s White Crusader by Alexis Wrangel
The Siberian Intervention by John Albert White
The American Expedition Fighting the Bolsheviki Campaigning in North Russia 1918-1919 (Battery Press)
Fighting the Bolsheviks the Russian War memoir of Private First Class Donald E Carey US Army, 1918-1919
When Hell Froze Over The Secret War between the US and Russia at the Top of the World by EM Halliday
Persian Expedition The Australians in Dunsterforce 1918 by Alan Stewart
Mission to Tashkent by Lieutenant-Colonel FM Bailey CIE
British WW1 Aircraft in the Polish Air Force by Tomasz J Kopanski
Armoured Units of the RCW White and Allied by D Bullock & A Deryabin (Osprey)
Armoured Units of the RCW Red Army by D Bullock (Osprey)
The RCW (1) The Red Army (Osprey)
The RCW (2) White Armies (Osprey)
The Russian Army 1914-18 (Osprey)
Ukrainian Armies 1914-55 (Osprey)
Chinese Civil War Armies 1911-49 (Osprey)
The Renault FT Tank by Steven J Zaloga
Six Russian Uniform Books on the RCW in Russian an Osprey style (see Gauntlet publications in my previous thread)
Russian Sideshow America’s Undeclared War 1918-1920 by Robert L Willett
Russian Steam Locomotives by HM LeFleming & JH Price
Hunted Through Central Asia On the Run from Lenin’s Secret Police by Paul Nazaroff
Kapchigai Defile The Journal of Paul Nazaroff
Figures of War and Fields of Honour Isaak Babel’s Red Cavalry by Christopher Luck
Vladivostok Under Red and White Rule Revolution and Counterrevolution in the Russian Far East 19120-1922 by Canfield F Smith
Trans-Dnepr Operation General Baron Wrangel’s Last operation in the RCW by Major Thomas Hillman
Russian Revolution 1900-1930 by Harrison E Salisbury
Armoured Automobiles of the RCW 1918-1920 Armoured Car Organisation, Doctrine and Orders of Battle for the Forces Fighting in the Civil and Soviet-Polish Wars by Major Thomas Hillman USA
War Cars British Armoured Cars in the First World War by David Fletcher
Armoured Trains of the Soviet Union 1917-1945 by Wilfried Kopenhagen
Loyal Comrades, Ruthless Killers The Secret Services of the USSR 1917-1991 by Slava Katamidze
The Russian revolution by John Bradley
Civil War in Russia 1917-1920 by John Bradley
White Against Red The Life of General Anton Denikin by Dimitry V Lehovich
Blood on the Snow Eyewitness Account of the Russian Revolution by Elisabeth Heresch
The Volunteer Army and Allied Intervention in South Russia 1917-1921 by George A Brinkley
With Ironside in North Russia by Andrew Soutar
Bolos & Barishynas The North Dvina 1919 Being an account of the doings of the Sadleir-Jackson Brigade, and Altham Flotilla, on the North Dvina during the Summer, 1919 (Naval & Military Press)
The Bolshevik Revolution 3 Volumes by EH Carr

[Helen]

Brigade Games For your RCW Figures
http://www.brigadegames.com/

Very true.  But if you have the pounds to spend, add some Copplestones for variety:

http://www.copplestonecastings.co.uk/range.php?range=BOB

Wouldn't want to do RCW without a pack of those Copplestone "Bolshevik Heroines."

Very true and a great range too

Just need the Women's Death Battalion

[warrenpeace]

Here's the Force of Arms pdf catalog (SCW):

http://www.forceofarms.co.uk/catalogue.pdf

And here's the Anglian Miniatures section at Brigade Games:

http://www.brigadegames.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=AN

For rules you might want to check out "Price of Glory" (at the bottom of this page at Brigade Games):

http://www.brigadegames.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=BGAHSL&Category_Code=II

Although I like "Arc of Fire" (in the middle of this mass of WW2 rules):

http://www.brigadegames.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=BGAHSL&Category_Code=WRWW2

[WillieB]

SCW drab grimness!!!


Next year (2008) Anglian's range will grow again, and I won;t be doing anything else until the SCW range is complete.
First releases of 2008 will be Pz1a tank, BT5 tank (in conjunction with Chieftain Models), Assault Guards 3 packs, and a pack of Soviet Advisors

Nigel H
Anglian Miniatures

Best news I've heard  this year!