15mm fantasy fig coolness!?

[vikotnik]

1st, the forerunners seem to be Hordes of Things, Fantasy Rules, Mighty armies, and Armies of Arcana…so any input on these games in specific would be helpful.

2nd, while I’m sort of an “old school” guy, I really don’t appreciate rules that are cumbersome and overly complicated for no real good reason….or overly simple.  As I investigate mini games that aren’t as mainstream as Games Workshop I’m finding 1 of two things to be common, either the game is overburdened with rules for rules sake or doesn’t have enough rules to make the game fun.  On the first count, I like rules to be streamlined so that the simplest and most effective rule for a given situation is used.  If it can be done in a simpler more streamlined way, by all means do it like that.  On the second count, we all know the basics of a wargame are move, fight, morale.  It’s awful easy to write a set of light mini rules…but these aren’t generally that much fun as the exciting part of mini gaming (other than painting the minis ) is a game that requires you to use tactics (and this sometimes means using the rules tactically).  IMHO Games Worlkshop just about got it right…probably why they are so popular.

3rd, I sort of like 1 figure to represent one soldier, even on this smaller scale.  I’ve never been a fan of mounting all those figures on one base and such.

4th, I’m not a huge fan of components beyond rulers, templates, minis, and dice.  In other words I HATE CHITS .  If a game requires a bunch of chits and markers to tell you what is going on, it’s probably too complicated for my taste. I like to resolve stuff every round and go on to the next.

5th…I guess I’m boring, but I like 6 sided dice.  I don’t mind games that choose other dice (like percentiles and such) but I don’t like those that use the entire range of dice…or worse yet have those wonky dice, like D30 or D24 and such.

When I read this, I think it all boils down to Hordes of the Things.
The rules really are simple but tricky to master and extremely versatile. There are lots of rules additions on the internet, plus thousands of army lists, including those based on various 'universes' such as Melnibonean or Middle-Earth.
You use ONE 6-sided die per person while gaming and the single component I used while gaming is a range ruler I downloaded from the internet and printed on transparent foil.
Table size usually is 60x60 cm, so You even have no trouble hiding Your gaming table behind the cupboard. Ah, the games I have played with lasted from 30min. to two hours using standard armies.

[grubman]

I personally don't share your high opinion of Warhammer - speaking as one who was a WHFB fanatic for many years but grew weary of GW's hard-selling tactics - but Warmaster is one thing GW got right

I had almost a decade of fun with WFB, and GW is (or was) a good business model for making money and supplying the fans with what they want (IMHO), so yeah, I have a "high opinion" of them (not fan-boy level).  

On the flip side, I've pretty much played out the game and have been looking for somthing different.  I certainly don't dislike them simply because they are top of the heap (not that I'm imp[lying that you do)or try to make a good profit from thier product (I mean, just because they do something fun doesn't mean they should have to starve to do it ).

I didn't look at Warmaster simply becasue at the time I was playing so much Warhammer I figured there was no real reson to bother...same thing on a smaller scale with less interesting looking minis.

In any case, after a TON of research this morning I ended up ordering Armies of Arcana, siunce it seems to do what I want and fall into my realms of what I like...but time will tell, things often seem different than they end up being.

HOWEVER, I did look at some 15mm figures at the FLGS today (for Flames of War).  My god, they were tiny!  Seriously I don't think I would be able to paint them and end up with a product I'm proud of.  Worse than that, I don't think they would have much "individuality" I mean, how can something that small stick out?  I'm torn, I totally love those figures from Splintered Light...but I don't know if I'm going to be happy with the investment if I order a bunch.  :cry:

[grubman]

1st, the forerunners seem to be Hordes of Things, Fantasy Rules, Mighty armies, and Armies of Arcana…so any input on these games in specific would be helpful.

2nd, while I’m sort of an “old school” guy, I really don’t appreciate rules that are cumbersome and overly complicated for no real good reason….or overly simple.  As I investigate mini games that aren’t as mainstream as Games Workshop I’m finding 1 of two things to be common, either the game is overburdened with rules for rules sake or doesn’t have enough rules to make the game fun.  On the first count, I like rules to be streamlined so that the simplest and most effective rule for a given situation is used.  If it can be done in a simpler more streamlined way, by all means do it like that.  On the second count, we all know the basics of a wargame are move, fight, morale.  It’s awful easy to write a set of light mini rules…but these aren’t generally that much fun as the exciting part of mini gaming (other than painting the minis ) is a game that requires you to use tactics (and this sometimes means using the rules tactically).  IMHO Games Worlkshop just about got it right…probably why they are so popular.

3rd, I sort of like 1 figure to represent one soldier, even on this smaller scale.  I’ve never been a fan of mounting all those figures on one base and such.

4th, I’m not a huge fan of components beyond rulers, templates, minis, and dice.  In other words I HATE CHITS .  If a game requires a bunch of chits and markers to tell you what is going on, it’s probably too complicated for my taste. I like to resolve stuff every round and go on to the next.

5th…I guess I’m boring, but I like 6 sided dice.  I don’t mind games that choose other dice (like percentiles and such) but I don’t like those that use the entire range of dice…or worse yet have those wonky dice, like D30 or D24 and such.

When I read this, I think it all boils down to Hordes of the Things.
The rules really are simple but tricky to master and extremely versatile. There are lots of rules additions on the internet, plus thousands of army lists, including those based on various 'universes' such as Melnibonean or Middle-Earth.
You use ONE 6-sided die per person while gaming and the single component I used while gaming is a range ruler I downloaded from the internet and printed on transparent foil.
Table size usually is 60x60 cm, so You even have no trouble hiding Your gaming table behind the cupboard. Ah, the games I have played with lasted from 30min. to two hours using standard armies.

I was VERY suprised to find a copy of 2nd ed Hordes of tthe Things in the FLGS today   Not real impressive to look at, but most of these games aren't.  In any case, I think one of the reasons I choose AoA over this is that each model represents a single fig and the fact that it is a little less "old school" from what I've read.  We'll see.

[Rhoderic]

I personally don't share your high opinion of Warhammer - speaking as one who was a WHFB fanatic for many years but grew weary of GW's hard-selling tactics - but Warmaster is one thing GW got right

I had almost a decade of fun with WFB, and GW is (or was) a good business model for making money and supplying the fans with what they want (IMHO), so yeah, I have a "high opinion" of them (not fan-boy level).  

On the flip side, I've pretty much played out the game and have been looking for somthing different.  I certainly don't dislike them simply because they are top of the heap (not that I'm imp[lying that you do)or try to make a good profit from thier product (I mean, just because they do something fun doesn't mean they should have to starve to do it ).

In retrospect, I think I was at fan-boy level there for a while. I had a genuine conviction that the powergamers couldn't hurt the core essence of the game, but I don't believe that anymore. My quarrel isn't really with the high prices (though looking at them now, numerous price rises later, I'm glad I quit when I did). It's more with the way they compromise game balance to make every new addition seem attractive to the powergamers, who make up such a large chunk of their customer base. The core rules aren't so bad, in fact I rather like Warhammer Ancient Battles (same basic rules, different application), but I feel WHFB gets weighed down with over-the-top army lists. But I digress, Warhammer was never the topic of this discussion.

I didn't look at Warmaster simply becasue at the time I was playing so much Warhammer I figured there was no real reson to bother...same thing on a smaller scale with less interesting looking minis.

Here I must beg to differ. It's much more than just Warhammer in 10mm. It plays very differently, emphasizes very different things, such as manoeuvring and the relaying of orders. I find it much more tactical than Warhammer. I also think it looks better on the tabletop, more like a real battle with countless soldiers milling about while imposing castles and forest-clad mountains loom in the distance. The miniatures are more forgiving to a bad painter like me, and the appearance of each individual miniature is quite unimportant.

Anyway, Warmaster was just a thought. It's one of my absolute favourite rulesets and a perfect example of what good stuff GW can produce when they take a more laid-back approach.

[Stecal]

I like HOTT or Chipco's Fantasy Rules primarily since they are based on DBA/DBM and my 15mm armies are already based for that.  For most historical armies you just have to paint up a few wizards, heroes & etc.  Monsters you can often just use a 25mm Fig with the 15mm stuff.

Reminds me that I still need to make a flying carpet for my Ottoman Turks...

[grubman]

 Here I must beg to differ.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I know I wasn't right...I'm just letting you know why I didn't check it out when I was into Warhammer.

[andyfb]

 Also worth a look is Basic impetus with a fantasy add on...all free to download at

http://www.dadiepiombo.com/indexuk.html

 And for 15mm fantasy figures have a look at Eureka(allthough they call them 18mm..and they are quite big but great figs.

http://eurekamin.com.au/index.php?cPath=87_110_116

 And i link to some that i have painted.

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=20366.msg250088#msg250088

 Cheers Andy

[Sangennaru]

HOWEVER, I did look at some 15mm figures at the FLGS today (for Flames of War).  My god, they were tiny!  

don't despair!!!

i've started painting some 15mm just for fun some time ago, and now i'm sill painting on them.... they are pretty different from the bigger one, of course the details are a bit less evident, but you take a very short time to paint them to high levels (many many layers of highlights and so on), so you can make warbands in a night of work!

and there are some manifactures that  have wonderfully sculpted minis! i heavly suggest mirliton, for fantasy!