The Battlefield

[Steve F]

I consider fantasy and SCI-Fi outside wargming and comprising their own "hobby". Actually we have to admit that if you play anything GW related you are playing another hobby alotogethe,r one that has been invented by GW...

Fantasy and Sci-Fi wargaming long predate GW.

[Arrigo]

Fantasy and Sci-Fi wargaming long predate GW.

Wrong... if you play their own rules you play their own hobby. Said otherwise and they will send their own lawyers!   

It was a joke... but to a certain extent you can say that the GW model is not completely wargaming because it involves also collecting specific assets for their in-game value and has more to do with RPG than pure wargaming. I would go on record to say that  traits, stats and other elements interact in the game in way that deny the  Perla's definition of "wargame is a warfare model or simulation whose operation does not involve the activities of actual military forces and, whose sequence of events affects and is, in turn, affected by the decisions made by the players representing the opposing sides" or Sabin's "they attempt to simulate  aspects of a real or imaginary armed conflict involving such military forces, and to do so with at least some concern for accuracy or "realism". In GW system there is an huge tendency to affect game events and decisions with pre-game  activities (changing stats by GW or acquiring specific elements) and also a tendency to have massively game changer elements in the form of awfully powerful characters that remember more RPG than proper Wargaming. So you can say that they indeed "invented" (or ripped, or badly cloned or frankestein made  ) a different hobby! 

 

[Arlequín]

With no offence intended, I have to disagree and I struggle to see what historical learning experience can be gained from playing a game, other than the research you put in to get a feel for the period and to decide what figures and models to use etc. I know what you mean about the concept of the 'GW Hobby', but you could apply that to the 'FoW Hobby', or even what was in effect the 'Wargames Research Group' Hobby as was, to stretch that point.   

In terms of effect, 'casting a fireball' at the enemy ranks is little different than 'calling in artillery', or a dragon's aerial attack from a napalm strike (in certain situations technology = magic to the person on the receiving end in any case). I could take either GW rule set, replace their fantasy models with real world proxies, play a game and call it 'historical'. The only real difference between fantasy, science-fiction and 'real-wargaming', are the tokens chosen to represent the combatants themselves and the terms used to define what is actually going on in the battle. The effects and rule mechanics are largely no different.

Likewise you have an array of options from which to compose your forces, chosen from within an established range of possibilities... having seen some 'historical' rule sets, I'd argue they are just as much fantasy though! I suppose I could argue that GW gives you alternate 'reality' boundaries from within which to draw your assets from... but I'll concede that point as I'm not convinced by that either.

Whether you are Prof Sabin or GW though, you've invented a system that 'models war', which is about as far removed from actual war as you can get. There are far too many examples of officers who have performed admirably in war games, who are completely unfit to command once the bullets start flying and the stress is on. Their men, regardless of how well trained or equipped, fall at the first hurdle, due to ineffective command and control.

All of that aside... if the rules aren't for you, that's good enough reason not to use them. The idea of 're-spawning' doesn't appeal to me either... that is my ultimate complaint about FPS games too... they are attrition based and they don't reward you for not dying, which I would have thought is the ultimate objective for any soldier.

[VoodooInk]

Reviewed it too (french and english, if you can read both, you'll get a little surprise  )

Clicky Linky

I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to not only do a thorough and comprehensive review [which it was] but also for actually putting the game on the table and taking it for a spin- much appreciated! I enjoyed the read, and the French extras where a nice touch. Looked like a fun game!

All of that aside... if the rules aren't for you, that's good enough reason not to use them. The idea of 're-spawning' doesn't appeal to me either... that is my ultimate complaint about FPS games too... they are attrition based and they don't reward you for not dying, which I would have thought is the ultimate objective for any soldier.

Arelequin, I appreciate your comments. I would like to add that the game is highly customizable so you can completely eliminate all re-spawns and simply play scenarios if you prefer. Each game mode has 4-8 official options available. The goal is to have the game flex to both the number of players and the desired experience.

I will say, however, that one nice thing about respawns is that in a multiplayer game [more than 2 players] everyone remains involved until the end.

[VoodooInk]

Just a heads up, The Battlefield  has been updated with a Quick Reference Sheet.

[carlos marighela]

Sorry for the intrusion, not read the rules but it occurs to me that this isn't the only game out there that dips its lid to computer games. FoF/ Ambush Alley basically has spawning points in the way it treats irregulars. Nobody seems to complain about that.

[Arlequín]

I'm not against re-spawning as such, it's a common mechanism for zombie games, amongst many others. I can see its merits, as if you luck out early in the game, for whatever reason, you're out of it... but on the other side of the coin, it encourages 'bodycount' style play, like most fps.

As VoodooInk says though, you're free (like in any game) to discard anything you don't like and it's a tool which has its uses and merits too. I've not read the rules either, I was just commenting on the principles of that type of gaming, rather than specifically coming down on these rules.

I'd try them... not that me trying anything is either a sensible suggestion, or something that should be imitated at home.  

[Ulu Elsomalien]

Just a heads up, The Battlefield  has been updated with a Quick Reference Sheet.

That's a great new ! (and I won't forget to send you PM about "that geat idea I had" soon)

[basaint]

I am, regrettably, still waiting to play Brent, sorry.

As for his other game, Op4s, we really liked it and hope that Battlefield plays as well.  Plus at the current price, you get a game with a great mechanic and ideas and can basically do whatever you want with once its in your hands.
The games not written in stone...we always tweak our games around.
Plus Brent thrives on comments and critiques.

[VoodooInk]

That's a great new ! (and I won't forget to send you PM about "that geat idea I had" soon)

I though you might like that! And I'm looking forward to hearing this idea- consider me officially intrigued.

I am, regrettably, still waiting to play Brent, sorry.

As for his other game, Op4s, we really liked it and hope that Battlefield plays as well.  Plus at the current price, you get a game with a great mechanic and ideas and can basically do whatever you want with once its in your hands.
The games not written in stone...we always tweak our games around.
Plus Brent thrives on comments and critiques.

I looking forward to you getting it on the table. Make sure to check back in once you've taken it for a spin. I have a feeling you're going to get some surprises.

[Yanez_966]

Hallo,
bought this interesting set of rules and still reading it.... 
I like the concept and the basic mechanic 

Just one fast question... will we see some near future rules for nice things like power armour, walkers, etc...?

[basaint]

If want those, you'll want to grab OP4s.  Very similar game but not played like a video game.

[Yanez_966]

If want those, you'll want to grab OP4s.  Very similar game but not played like a video game.

From what I have read on it is more oriented to the 6-15mm scale, I'd like something equally suitable for 28mm.

Yes, we have Tommorrow's war, (or FoF...) but the more extreme simplicity involved in The Battlefield attracted my curiosity...
Unfortunately, it is a period where time for wargaming is not on my side, and I wanted something smartly simple (i.e. a simple rules system that keeped the majority of tactical elements without loosing itself in a thousands tables, microrules or microexceptions...)

In any case, I'll take a look at OP4s - I'm sure it's worth it  


EDIT: Yes, core mechanic is very similar  just checked....

[VoodooInk]

Hallo,
bought this interesting set of rules and still reading it.... 
I like the concept and the basic mechanic 

Just one fast question... will we see some near future rules for nice things like power armour, walkers, etc...?

Glad you're liking the rules! To answer your question:YES!! We are currently testing the sci-fi expansion for The Battlefield and it should be available in the not too distant future. Not only will there be power armor, walkers, and jump suits, but I have quite a few surprises and interesting twists in store!

Yes, we have Tommorrow's war, (or FoF...) but the more extreme simplicity involved in The Battlefield attracted my curiosity...
Unfortunately, it is a period where time for wargaming is not on my side, and I wanted something smartly simple (i.e. a simple rules system that keeped the majority of tactical elements without loosing itself in a thousands tables, microrules or microexceptions...)

In any case, I'll take a look at OP4s - I'm sure it's worth it  Smiley

EDIT: Yes, core mechanic is very similar  Cheesy just checked....

OP4S is currently getting a major rework and will be utilizing a new internal mechanic. The Battlefield actually features the best 'shooter' and skirmish elements from the OP4S beta. The sci-fi expansion will expound on that.

As you can see, you could easily integrate many of the profiles from OP4S directly into your games while you wait for the official expansion. If you have any questions on how to do that, then don't hesitate to ask.

Also, since you picked up the current version of the beta, make sure to save it under another file name. That way, when future updates arrive, you won't lose the current usable material.

[basaint]

Yan
OP4s works just fine for 28mm...we use it