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Author Topic: Dark Vengeance 40k starter box  (Read 13055 times)

Offline The_Beast

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Re: Dark Vengeance 40k starter box
« Reply #60 on: August 31, 2012, 02:55:25 PM »
Good, because if you did it wouldn't be working correctly  o_o

Obviously working; no one's pointed out that machine doesn't listen to dreams. It injects ideas into...

*gak*

The_Beast

whoops... correction... deleted gamer signs...

Doug

Offline Splod

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  • Posts: 676
  • Flittering from one project to another
Re: Dark Vengeance 40k starter box
« Reply #61 on: August 31, 2012, 11:29:11 PM »
Hmm, I pre-ordered a limited edition yesterday... After getting a look at the cultists, but I'm thinking I might can it and just wait for the cultists to pop up on evil-bay.

Offline Elbows

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 9505
Re: Dark Vengeance 40k starter box
« Reply #62 on: August 31, 2012, 11:40:13 PM »
6th edition is closer to RT or 2nd edition than the last few.

Really?  I've only watched a bunch of intro videos on Beasts of War - but it sure doesn't sound like it at all.  It sounds like an even more dumbed down version of 4th/5th (which drove me straight out of the game).
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Offline darquebus

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Re: Dark Vengeance 40k starter box
« Reply #63 on: September 03, 2012, 05:25:23 AM »
hm is there anything really new in there?
...
Maybe I am wrong but this looks boring


quoting myself  :D

...went into a GW shop today and had a look at the plastic stuff, yepp I was right "boring".
...nothing new. And the cultist are really not that great at all. Maybe it's also the GW iconography that is annoying because their figures always stand out and scream "hey I am a GW miniature! You are not allowed to use me for anything else!"
Maybe for a beginner kid (with rich parents) but who else needs another space marine variant with the legs bent at a slightly different angle.

Just out of interest...are all these figures done on a computer and then just 3D printed? That would be even more boring and explain why so many peace look like "copy and paste"








Ex-Kieler in Down Under

Offline beefcake

  • Galactic Brain
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Re: Dark Vengeance 40k starter box
« Reply #64 on: September 03, 2012, 08:05:44 AM »
I'm still looking forward to my cultists :)



Offline Major_Gilbear

  • Scatterbrained Genius
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Re: Dark Vengeance 40k starter box
« Reply #65 on: September 03, 2012, 03:33:51 PM »
...went into a GW shop today and had a look at the plastic stuff, yepp I was right "boring".
...nothing new. And the cultist are really not that great at all. Maybe it's also the GW iconography that is annoying because their figures always stand out and scream "hey I am a GW miniature! You are not allowed to use me for anything else!"
Maybe for a beginner kid (with rich parents) but who else needs another space marine variant with the legs bent at a slightly different angle.

I kinda feel the opposite actually.

I find that the Chaos side in particular has finally managed to nail down what their artwork has shown for years but that their previous models always failed to deliver.

As for the GW look*... Well, aspects of that I agree with. The main things are the size, scale and exaggerated proportions of everything. That makes it hard to fit into other ranges easily, but if you're prepared to do a little work with a knife, file and possibly some different heads, it is pretty easy to change them to how you want - and they will usually fit in much better then. The Cultists at least seem oddly skull-free compared to most recent GW models (even the Dark Angels from the same box!).

The main thing that I like about this starter and the current WHFB starter is that the models are dynamic and yet come in few parts - a sharp contrast to most of their troops boxes.

I would *much* rather have ten properly-posed models that come in two parts each on a pair of frames than ten models with 5+ parts each on four frames in a box. Why? Because the models that most of the current multi-part kits produce have far too many parts and mouldlines. They also seem to produce the same stiff, awkwardly-posed models for everyone, despite the multi-posing supposedly allowing for more customisation. Finally, they are plastic, so cutting them up for conversions is quite easy (and no, parts-swapping between different kits isn't converting!). The starter boxes have shown just what's possible with the new generation of plastic figures, but only if you let the new medium work to achieve what other mediums cannot. If you just copy other mediums but with plastic, you've pretty much wasted the chance to do something cool, and you can never quite match in quality what the other mediums can achieve on their own terms either.


*I guess it's like the Innsmouth Look in some ways? :P

Just out of interest...are all these figures done on a computer and then just 3D printed? That would be even more boring and explain why so many peace look like "copy and paste"

AFAIK, no physical model is produced at all in these cases (except where something sufficiently new in design warrants it so that it can be held in-hand and passed around at a meeting). Remember that printing these things is expensive, and that the final moulds will not be made anything like the way that the rubber moulds are. In early design stages, sculptors at GW will mock up something appropriate in the traditional GS from the concept art to see if the models will work how they want them to. I think that when the Dark Eldar range was re-done recently by GW, they had quite a lot of videos and commentary from Jes Goodwin about the process.

Once finalised, the 3D design can be used to cut the moulds directly - although, as with all these things, different companies can do different things or use different methods.

Also, sometimes the physical models are "scanned" and used to generate a 3D model, which can then be tweaked and updated/used as necessary. For example, a number of the Dark Eldar plastic trooper models were done this way IIRC.

Offline driller

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 300
Re: Dark Vengeance 40k starter box
« Reply #66 on: September 03, 2012, 03:36:40 PM »
I'm certainly no friend of GW's policies, but I have to admit, this is a great set.

Offline Dentatus

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Re: Dark Vengeance 40k starter box
« Reply #67 on: September 03, 2012, 10:41:58 PM »
I'm not a GW fan boy either, but I'll be picking up those cultists at some point.

And for a Starter Set, I think it's an interesting mix of figs and reasonably priced.

Offline Elbows

  • Galactic Brain
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Re: Dark Vengeance 40k starter box
« Reply #68 on: September 04, 2012, 12:40:45 AM »
^This is my issue though.  ;)

So, for MSRP $99.00...meaning in a little while you'll get it for $75-80 at a decent online discount retailer.  For $80 you get: 48 models (including bikes, a dreadnought, characters etc.).  On the flip side, as an old school Eldar player, I can order elite choices for $41 ($30 at discount?) per 6 figures...in finecast - even though the sculpts range from 5-15 years old...or perhaps I can pay $15 per Wraithguard model, another 20 year old sculpt.  Oh, and you can ONLY get your elite choices in Finecast.

Their boxed sets completely invalidate the rest of their obnoxious lineup.  They do this with many of their reasonable starter boxes.  Oh you play this army?  Congrats you can probably do some ebaying, and have a very affordable, reasonable army.  Oh you play THAT army?  Good luck fielding an army for less than $600.

To me, that kind of thing is a bit of a slap in the face.  It says to me, GW is sitting there blatantly saying "hey guys, our game could be affordable...but...nope.".

Offline Michka

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1540
Re: Dark Vengeance 40k starter box
« Reply #69 on: September 04, 2012, 05:35:56 AM »
GW has one very important aspect that gets overlooked by those of us with a game group. You can find a game almost anywhere. I have a friend in the Air Force who plays almost anything GW makes. He ends up moving every two years, so finding a game group isn't always doable. Finding a group to play Warhammer 40K is pretty darn reliable almost anywhere on the planet. Sure it's expensive, and there may be better systems out there, but for universal appeal it's hard to find a better choice. 
 
The funny thing about me defending WH40K is I've quit playing the game at least six times, and I just picked up the box set two days ago. This entertains my wife to no end.

Offline Major_Gilbear

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Re: Dark Vengeance 40k starter box
« Reply #70 on: September 04, 2012, 09:02:48 AM »
GW has one very important aspect that gets overlooked by those of us with a game group. You can find a game almost anywhere.  [...] Sure it's expensive, and there may be better systems out there, but for universal appeal it's hard to find a better choice.

I can see this argument, and sort of agree too. But factor in the size of  a typical army nowadays (i.e., how many models you're gonna have to paint!) and the cost of it (and maybe the quality of the game rules / balance of your chosen army) and it suddenly starts to look pretty shaky for what you have to lay out. Not to mention the size of the board and the length of the game, both of which may be prohibitive.

For the cost of one GW WH40K army, you can buy two (or more) "average size" forces for most other games out there, and that way have a loaner army for your game of choice - it means that anyone willing to play and learn some rules can easily join you in whatever your chosen game is (and might discover there are other fun games out there than WH40K). Is it cheaper per model to do this? Probably not. Is it a better game that you are likely to be playing? Probably. Will everyone want to learn and play a new game with you? Depends, but having everything ready is pretty tempting. Does having more than one force afford you more variety too? Definitely.

Not that everyone will jump on this, or saying that everything GW does is evil, or anything else that is inflammatory and/or sensationalist... Just that there is more out there, and most people who have only experienced GW games very often really cannot see the wood for the trees; they need to either be burned repeatedly or be shown the light by someone else!* ;)

(*Yeah, I meant that as a half-joke, it's not meant to be patronising!)

[...] I just picked up the box set two days ago. This entertains my wife to no end.

Me too...  :'(

Offline beefcake

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 7469
Re: Dark Vengeance 40k starter box
« Reply #71 on: September 04, 2012, 09:32:38 AM »
I havea  copy of AE bounty, never played it but it looks to be a great game. Use whatever minis you have (even 40k ones) to make up your team of varying sizes 2-16 no points to worry about at all. The good thing about it is you get to use whatever scale you want and whatever companies minis you want. You could do the same for GW games as well but I like the small skirmish games (Necromunda included).

Offline Major_Gilbear

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Re: Dark Vengeance 40k starter box
« Reply #72 on: September 04, 2012, 10:22:49 AM »
@ Beefcake:

I've played a couple of games with AE Bounty, and enjoyed them. They are strictly small-scale skirmish rules though, and the "point-less" system of crew generation is fiddly enough that I just wish somebody would write a proper program that makes it simpler and prints out a summary at the end for you. (like the Infinity one for example, which is excellent).

I think that the AE Bounty rules are good for Rogue Trader and pirate / Chaos warband crews, but I feel they would struggle to represent something like a squad of Space Marines properly. You would also struggle to get more than a few (at most maybe) Marines in a force - assuming that you want them to be pretty "elite" of course!

Offline obsidian3d

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Re: Dark Vengeance 40k starter box
« Reply #73 on: September 04, 2012, 05:40:30 PM »
I picked up the Dark Vengeance box over the weekend and put all the models together. The only ones that I've glued in place so far are the two squads of cultists. My initial impressions are good, very good. The details on the plastic figures is really quite stellar. And while yes, I admit that it is an expensive box ($135 Canadian), that works out to be somewhere around $3 per figure, not including the rule book and other stuff in the box. Realistically speaking, that's pretty reasonable compared to other similar products out there.

I haven't done much other than flip through the new rules, but the learn to play book is decent looking. I'm going to try running through it this week to see how sixth differs from fifth.
obsidian3d
www.o2media.ca

Offline Dentatus

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Re: Dark Vengeance 40k starter box
« Reply #74 on: September 04, 2012, 10:29:13 PM »
Ordered Cultists and a Hellbrute off eBay. They'll make great generic minions.

 

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