War of the Roses C. 1515

[Arlequín]

Sorry for the lengthy reply - I got carried away :-)

It's okay, I can't comment on 'over-long posts' without considering some of my own.  

When such a thing contains such a wealth of information - bearing in mind a lot of that is completely innaccessible to English readers too, I personally am quite grateful for them!

I once heard the idea that the "Black" in Black guard came from Martin Schwartz, as his name means Black in German. Untrue, in all likelyness, as the "Black" only shows up late.

Apart from that, the coincidence that the Landsknechts were formalized in the same year as the expedition of Schwartz and his band to England is kind of itching with me. I am probably missing some connection...

Ideas or previews of Flags (or other stuff) would be most welcome :-)

Even if there was no actual connection, Schwartz and/or some of his merry band would have known, personally or by reputation, some of the members of the Black Band... it was a small world they moved in.

I am working on some speculative alternate banners for my Stoke Field project, and I'm happy to share them if they're of interest to you all.

Of course they are, please do!  

[Stuart]

Ditto, Don't be sorry and thanks for explaining your reasoning as to why Potter could have misinterpreted his sources.

I'm putting together a French army for 1513 and he's my only reliable source so he's my baby at the moment, but as you point out he is a secondary source and the primary sources must also be taken in context and are not themselves infallible.

That and I took a leap of faith that De la Pole commanded the Black band in the decade preceding Pavia, he is noted as being an experienced commander of Landsknechts but as you point out it given the Frisian origin and use elsewhere it doesn't make sense - anything you can find on him would also be appreciated, especially the 6000 under his command outside Therouanne.

I was lucky with the English as the primary sources are rich, detailed, varied and freely available - in English, sorry Englishe.

Do you know much about Henri of Nassau's alliance with Henry at this time or was it a sub contract via Maximilian?



All the best

Stuart

[Stuart]

Can't have too many words without a break !

[commissarmoody]

And a nice break it is

[Gangleri]

And a nice break it is

Quite so.  They look wonderful.  Stunning as always.

I once heard the idea that the "Black" in Black guard came from Martin Schwartz, as his name means Black in German. Untrue, in all likelyness, as the "Black" only shows up late.
Apart from that, the coincidence that the Landsknechts were formalized in the same year as the expedition of Schwartz and his band to England is kind of itching with me. I am probably missing some connection...

Yes, it's an exciting coincidence, isn't it?  I'm inclined to agree with you about the Black/Schwartz connection, but as Mr. Arlequín pointed out, even if there was no direct link, it was a small world they all lived in. 

[Arlequín]

I'm a bit bemused that for all their colour and flamboyance, the best two names they came up with were 'Black' and 'White' Guards.  

[Stuart]

Surely the Arlequin guard would be better though they may be distracted by rugby

[Atheling]

Can't have too many words without a break !

  Stuet makes a good point!! 

Darrell.