Chaos in Carpathia Campaign

[Tenz]

Hey guys,

A few weekends ago Jet and I continued on with our Chaos in Carpathia campaign. I did a battle report on my blog if you would like to check it out and comment. The link is below

http://basementmotive.blogspot.ca/2012/09/chaos-in-carpathia-brotherhood-vs-were.html


Here are a couple of shots from the report.





Cheers,

Tenz

[aggro84]

Wow! what a fun looking game.

It's been awhile since I've seen a Jet related CiC battle report.

Thanks for sharing.

[driller]

that monk fella with the big cross, from which company is he from?

[Tenz]

Hi Aggro84,

Jet is still around. With the summer season we haven't had much time on the cic front but hoping to get back to a regular swing soon. We are having alot of fun with the game and the new mechanics.

Driller, the mook guy your referencing is from the Brotherhood line from West Wind Miniatures.

You can check them out here

http://www.westwindproductions.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=2_19&products_id=42

cheers,

Tenz

[Mike D. Mc Brice]

Very nice battle report, thanks! The Brotherhood seems to have a slight edge over the Wolves?

How do the Nosferatu play? I've not yet been able to paint a gang to try them.

[driller]

Hi Aggro84,

Jet is still around. With the summer season we haven't had much time on the cic front but hoping to get back to a regular swing soon. We are having alot of fun with the game and the new mechanics.

Driller, the mook guy your referencing is from the Brotherhood line from West Wind Miniatures.

You can check them out here

http://www.westwindproductions.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=2_19&products_id=42


cheers,

Tenz

cheers!

[jet]

Hey Tom,

We are still playing strong and using the updated warband lists from last Spring. Frankly, We've played games with the Romanians, Nosferatu, and the Werewolves vs Monster Hunters, Gypsies, and Brotherhood. I generally find that the Human warbands have a slight edge over the Monsters. For example, we played two games last weekend. The Brotherhood won against the Werewolves and then my Hungarian Hunters won against Tenz's Nosferatu. In fact, the Hungarians ANNIHILATED the Nosferatu.

Very nice battle report, thanks! The Brotherhood seems to have a slight edge over the Wolves?

Yes. I think the most obvious balance issue with the Brotherhood is their access to special weapons. Four uses of Silver is just too much IMO.  Furthermore, I find that the wardogs are too powerful in all of the Human warbands. The issue is that the Monsters HAVE to attack the wardog in favour of the actual character. I wonder if that rule could be watered down i.e. If an enemy model attacks a human character with a hunting hound in base contact, the enemy must subtract 1D from it's attack as the loyal pet snaps at ankles, barks, and generally harasses the enemy model. Just an idea.

How do the Nosferatu play? I've not yet been able to paint a gang to try them.

Nosferatu are great (as are werewolves for that matter), and I think that if the special equipment was backed off a little on the Brotherhood and that hunting hounds were adjusted somehow, the Monsters would naturally balance. In short, with the new points costs, Humans will pretty much always outnumber Monsters and, in my opinion, Humans should need to make use of these numbers to defeat Monsters. Lately, I don't find that Humans need to work together as much as they should.

P.S. I remind you that I play my Hungarian Monster Hunters quite regularly so these are not the complaints of a sore loser, but honest criticism based on play     But to be clear, Tenz and I LOVE the updated warbands and things like the tougher werewolves, the Nosferatu's Mind Control, and the Romanians vampiric might really make the Monster factions colourful and fun to play.

[Mike D. Mc Brice]

That's the same results I had from my games, I played a number og games with Romanians and sometimes they drop like flies. This must be even worse for the Nosferatu who are more fragile.
I've already made a couple of changes, the Romanians "Vampiric Might", which was a bit useless so far, got a number of enhancements and witht he new additions it realy sets them apart from the other warbands.
The Nosferatu will get a new trait to represent their ages experience, this will enable them to change their dice and use a rolled 1 as two goals, a rolles 2 and 3 as one goal and 4,5,6 as zero goals. Basically you mirror the dice results.
And some other stuff

The dogs are quite nasty and most people go for maximum numbers. I think other tactical options are as good as many dogs though. I was already planning to drop one dog from the Brotherhood list and possibly raise their cost a bit.

It might also be worth a try to raise the GBP you use in game to 400 or 450.

I plan to have this complete by Halloween and I will send you a PM when it's done.

[jet]

Sounds good. I look forward to seeing it. Personally, I would be cautious about raising the cost of a dog. I think, afterall, it is only a dog and it shouldn't be that competitive compared to a monster. We've decided in our group that we are going to test play the following house rules:

1. Hunting Hounds are loyal. If in base contact with their master, they can target their attacks against any enemy in base contact with the master character. Furthermore, if an enemy model attacks a character who has a hound in base contact, it subtracts 1D from it's attack as the hound barks, bites and generally annoys the enemy. Of course, the enemy character can still choose to direct it's attacks against the dog but it's not forced to. We will continue to keep the other advantages conveyed by hounds (i.e. making perception checks for the master, negating Stygian Darkness when in base)

2. Brotherhood warbands have only 3 silver updates for the warband.

3. Only Brothers with the Veteran upgrade may raise a skill to x3. Otherwise, it's too easy to have an entire warband with combat attack x3 and/or crack shot x3.

I'll let you know how it goes.

[aggro84]

I love all the rules talk!

Mike D. Mc Brice, I have a lot of your optional warband rules and scenarios. I love to look at your revised lists / optional rules when they are ready as well.

[jet]

So, Tenz and I played a couple of more games last night and we tested out some of the house rules I listed a couple of posts above. In short, the dogs really were the balance issue in the most recent list. We kept them at 17 points each and attached to a character. The big change is, instead of absorb the master's damage when in base contact, the enemy got -1D to his attack when targeting the master. We also decided that hounds neither benefit from nor gain the benefit of friends in combat. A hound has AGILITY 3 and COMBAT ATTACK 2 so 5 dice on the attack (7 when charging) is more than reasonable. Of course, the dog has other subtle benefits which came out during the game:

- cancelling STYGIAN DARKNESS effects when in base with the master
- making spotting roles on the master's behalf
- Allowing the master to leave combat without suffering a free strike by leaving combat second and taking a free strike itself.

Also, we dropped the Brotherhood's silver load-out from 4 to 3 and also level 3 skills to Veteran Brothers only. Again, these measures, along with the hounds, really brought the Brotherhood down a notch or two but kept them a challenging opponent. And when I played my Hungarian Monster Hunters (with three hounds) we found they weren't quite as indestructible (but thanks to Tenz'z crappy rolls, they still spanked the Nosferatu). In fairness, Tenz admitted after the game was over that he was playing the Nosferatu too aggressively. Like similar vampires in movies, they are better at using a cloak and dagger style of approach and stealing objectives rather than a straight werewolf-like charge into the enemy.

Anyway, I will be updating our house rules document (about one page) with these adjustments. Frankly, Our CinC games have never been better.

[aggro84]

Interesting results and observations from your test game Jet.

[Mike D. Mc Brice]

The big change is, instead of absorb the master's damage when in base contact, the enemy got -1D to his attack when targeting the master. ...

I think these changes assume that the dog's handler already has some good fighting abilities to beginn with. But another tactical option for a dog is to protect a weak character like a Professor or a Priest and to help him to carry out his objective. I've done this in a couple of games and thus bought the Professor another turn to act by sacrificing a dog.
With the change you suggests this doesn't work anymore because the -1D don't prevent a charging Vampire or Werwolf to hit the Professor. As a result dogs would only be attractive as additional combat support for fighting orientated characters like Slayers and such.
I agree they are too strong and need some changes.
BTW you got email ;-)

[jet]

Got the email, read the lists, reworked all of my lists, and replied. Very nice   Werewolves are scary again!

[Tenz]

Hey Guys,

I just updated my blog with another game between Jet and myself from last week. It was his Were Wolves against my brotherhood.

Feel free to check out the blood bath.

http://basementmotive.blogspot.ca/2012/10/cic-dice-gods-taketh-away-part-two.html

This was before the new lists. We did however have a game earlier this week with the new lists and found them to be a great improvement. We are still working out house rules for the hounds as they seem to be a little powerful but everything else was spot on!! I'm really digging the new Nosferatu lists.

Tenz