Clash of Empires vs Hail Caesar?

[Timbor]

Hi folks,

I was looking around for a ruleset for Ancients gaming, and was considering between Hail Caesar and Clash of Empires.  Anyone have any advice on the style of each game, as well as their pros and cons?

Thanks!

[6sided]

Clash of Empires is basically Warhammer Ancient Battles.  So it's unit focused, figure removal, tons of dice - basically Warhammer with twists.

Hail Caesar is basically Warmaster, it is army-focused, unit removal, medium amount of dice rolling.

I prefer Hail Caesar for one simple reason - it rewards the use and maintenance of a solid battle line.  Once your line is broken, you struggle.  In WaB and CoE, units can twist around like nutters without any such concerns.

[GordonKhartoum]

A succinct review 6sided I shall try and be almost as brief!

The unit and army focus is an important point as HC tends to fair better when fielding plenty of units per side. If you are starting out you may want a set of rules that handles smaller action in which case CoE may be the better option as a starter set. There are of course other sets that deal with this scale of game but then that wasn't the question.

I would add though that although both sets are primarily aimed at 28mm figures there is no reason why you cannot use different scales.

[Timbor]

Thanks for the replies.  I use only 28mm figures, and at the moment I do not command huge armies.  So perhaps a ruleset for a more concentrated force would be appropriate then?

I know I could get a few games of CoE relatively close to where I am, but I think with HC I might have to recruit my own player base, which may be more difficult...

[scarabminiatures]

There is also War & Conquest (from Scarab Miniatures), with a growing fan base around the world.

(NB I accept that wasn't the question, but couldn't resist - sorry  )

You can find a review here http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=269876

Broadly speaking the game falls somewhere between your two choices

Any other questions, best to aks on our forum or pm me in case I miss the post here.

[GordonKhartoum]

I know I could get a few games of CoE relatively close to where I am (EDIT)

In which case you can try before you buy. There may also be the possibility of everyone grouping together and playing a larger multi-player game using HC rules.

The basing system for CoE and HC are the same (as is WAB and W&C for that matter) so you are good for multiple rules. Plus both CoE & HC are releasing supplemental books of army lists.

In the case of CoE the WAB supplements are easily convertible and sometimes cheap on e-bay if they haven't already covered your chosen armies.

[n815e]

There is no set unit sizes in Hail Caesar.  You set the size of the units - which are classed as Large, Regular, Small or Tiny.

A small miniature collection should not be a barrier to playing the game, particularly as you don't worry about multiple ranks like you do in WAB style games.

[Warren_Gleeson]

Initially I'd go with what ever is being played near by, then try the other systems.

WAB has all but died around me (long live WAB) so I've drifted around the other systems.  I enjoy them both but find they work better for different sized games.

Whilst HC may be playable with very small units it works better visually with lots of larger units (it is a great game to pull lots of players in with their toys and still get a reasonably fast game).  CoE is more suitable for your smaller games, but does scale up OK, but will likely be slower than HC for the really big games.

Any WAB armies can be quickly drafted in for CoE games as the basing is consistent (and similarly WAC), and with simple movement trays they can also easily used for HC.

Warren

[n815e]

Any ancients game works better visually with more models - which is why I play with 6mm.

However, in terms of gameplay having smaller units is not going to change how the game works and is probably better for most gamers' play space.

[greatescapegames]

They are very different. One advantage with CoE is the very excellent army lists that are available in book form and on the website, many written by Mr Gleeson and other ex-stalwarts in the WAB world. And they are by no means old WAB (or other game) lists modified for CoE; they have been pretty rigorously researched and I think they are very much better than those that were offered by, for example, WAB and DBM/FoG. Plus, the author grew up in Fort Erie...!

[Tarty]

28s and a few less figures needed than most rules ?.......you have to go with Impetus.
Single stand units and you can put as many figs, or as few, as you like on them. It's also my rules of choice when it comes to ancients, hands down ! 

[gatetraveller]

I know this doesn't answer your question, but I second the suggestion that you take a look at War & Conquest (Scarab Miniatures).

It is very similar to WAB, but it has some really great game mechanics of it's own. 

The army lists are all free online and they have an excellent forum and a Yahoo group.

http://scarabminiatures.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=41

[Axebreaker]

There is no set unit sizes in Hail Caesar.  You set the size of the units - which are classed as Large, Regular, Small or Tiny.

A small miniature collection should not be a barrier to playing the game, particularly as you don't worry about multiple ranks like you do in WAB style games.

He's right on the mark. You set unit sizes and game size so it's entirely up to you how many figures you will need as there are no minimum requirements.

You can begin with as little as say 4 units a side split into 2 groups with you setting unit size. Basically, you will be hard pressed to find a game that can do that. As your collection grows you can add more to the groups and/or create new ones. The rules are so flexible it handles small games and huge ones with comparative ease.

You can even adjust the ranges and movements to suite your table space without a negative impact on the rules.

Any ancients game works better visually with more models

Again good point.

28s and a few less figures needed than most rules ?.......you have to go with Impetus.

Also another good game, but this does have minimum requirements with slightly more complex rules although I would not call them particularly complex.

Impetus and Hail Caesar are compatible to collect for as you can base your figures for Impetus and use them in Hail Caesar which is very common.

Christopher