Ronin, by Osprey!

[Ferb]

Hi all,

I've finished painting up my first buntai for Ronin using Zvezda 1/72 minis. So I thought I'd go through the list and look at the options I've chosen as well as posting a few photos. The details can be found here.

Ferb

[cacofold]

Rules question: A yari ashigaru costs 18 points (I think, I left the book at home today). A disguised ninja costs 26(again, from memory) points. If I want to field a disguised ninja in a list do I pay just the ninja cost of 26 points or do I pay 26 points + 18 points for the ninja and his alter ego?

[blacksoilbill]

Just the 26 points. The rules don't say anything about adding the point costs together.

I also have a question about the rules - what is the Morale rating for a Shugyosha?

Bill.

[Dal]

Hi all,
just out of interest has anyone used  Ronin for the later period Edo / Boshin war / Satsuma rebellion yet?
  I'm in the process of trying to create a Shinsengumi Buntai and an imperial army Buntai.
Cheers
chris

[Smith]

Just the 26 points. The rules don't say anything about adding the point costs together.

I also have a question about the rules - what is the Morale rating for a Shugyosha?

Bill.

As a hired sword, it's the same as the gang for which he's fighting (I believe – I don't have my copy to hand).

[blacksoilbill]

Yes, thanks, that makes sense. Should read the rules a little more carefully, shouldn't I!

Bill.

[GladioHumanitas]

And here I thought I actually had enough skirmish wargames... 

Well one more isn't going to hurt!

[Hatemonger]

I just bought the rules today. In putting together some first Buntai to try out, I've been looking over the different weapon types, and I'm a little confused by the choices.

You've got a Katana, which is the baseline; no bonuses or penalties.
There are Wakizashi and Tanto, obviously "lesser" weapons by comparison.
No-dachi and Tetsubo are the "heavy" weapons: -1 initiative, but +1 attack. Seems reasonable.
The Nagae-yari has +3 initiative for the first round of combat, but then drops to -2 in subsequent rounds. Also a reasonable trade-off and seems rational for the weapon.

But we have a Yari, with +2 initiative, and the Naginata, with +1 to both initiative and attack. Clearly very good. No down side that I can tell, aside from a bit in the section about buildings: "Models armed with long handled weapons (including yari, nagae-yari, tetsubo, nodachi and naginata) suffer a -1 Initiative penalty and -1 penalty to Attack Rolls when fighting inside buildings, unless the combat is taking place in a very large room."

I'm scratching my head at some of this (I thought a tetsubo was no larger than a katana), but two primary questions strictly from the rules:

1) For fighting in buildings, are the modifiers supposed to be cumulative with the weapon's normal ones, or replace them? That is, would the Naginata be 'canceled' down to 0/0, or penalized to -1/-1?

2) Are the Yari and Naginata supposed to have some version of the 'second round' penalty as well? Because otherwise, I don't see why you would ever choose a weapon other than those. Were they known as clearly superior weapons at the time? That would surprise me, but even so, why don't they cost more points?

The game looks mostly good so far, and I've only had a quick read, so maybe I just missed some bits.

- H8

[Harrythespider]

Nick can you get your packers to work weekends and pack my toy soldiers for this please 

and then perhaps can you jump into your Bugatti Veyron and hand deliver them please. Just finished my ihmn warband and need something to paint

[nicknorthstar]

Strewth 

[Smith]

1) For fighting in buildings, are the modifiers supposed to be cumulative with the weapon's normal ones, or replace them? That is, would the Naginata be 'canceled' down to 0/0, or penalized to -1/-1?

2) Are the Yari and Naginata supposed to have some version of the 'second round' penalty as well? Because otherwise, I don't see why you would ever choose a weapon other than those. Were they known as clearly superior weapons at the time? That would surprise me, but even so, why don't they cost more points?

The 'indoors' modifiers are cumulative with any others – so the naginata is effectively running at 0/0 (assuming no further modifiers are relevant).

The weapons are correct, as far as I can tell. They are effective weapons, which is why they were the weapon of choice for many in the period (sohei used naginata extensively, for example). However, bear in mind that to use them properly requires not only the expenditure of additional points to purchase the weapon, but also to acquire the appropriate bujutsu. A katana can be buffed for just +3pts (kenjutsu), and the model's combat pool can be increased by 1 for another +3pts (niten), so that could be another way to go.

Speaking for myself, I tailor my lists around what figures I have, or what I think looks cool (i.e. tetsubos)!

[Hatemonger]

The 'indoors' modifiers are cumulative with any others – so the naginata is effectively running at 0/0 (assuming no further modifiers are relevant).

The weapons are correct, as far as I can tell. They are effective weapons, which is why they were the weapon of choice for many in the period (sohei used naginata extensively, for example).

Thanks for the clarifications. I don't have any game experience yet, so I don't have any practical criticism, either. It was just a matter of the weapon profiles matching the expectations in my head, and I wanted to find out if I had missed something important.

However, bear in mind that to use them properly requires not only the expenditure of additional points to purchase the weapon, but also to acquire the appropriate bujutsu. A katana can be buffed for just +3pts (kenjutsu), and the model's combat pool can be increased by 1 for another +3pts (niten), so that could be another way to go.

And that would be a good example. 

I was thinking bujutsu gave a simple +1, not a re-roll, which is why it seemed odd. Now I can see the differences better. For a peasant starting with nothing, a naginata is a better option than a katana, but for a samurai who can master the daisho, there is higher potential. Which I'll admit is cool.

Speaking for myself, I tailor my lists around what figures I have, or what I think looks cool (i.e. tetsubos)!

Oh, I understand, but that's actually what tends to set off my imbalance detector more than actively min-maxing. I was sifting through a box of old Clan War minis, pulling out models that looked cool, and filling out a buntai roster as I went. I set down one guy with a tetsubo, another with a naginata. The first guy gets -1/+1, the second gets +1/+1. They cost the same. So that's when I start thinking, "What am I missing here?"

- H8

[Whtknt1066]

So I was reading the "is Malifaux broken?" Thread just now and came across this quote:

"If it's 'tactical' in the Malifaux sense I can almost guarantee I won't like it, and it could be a wrench to get them onto something more 'boring historical' like Ronin. (If there's going to be a myth & folklore supplement for the latter, it can't come too soon IMO!)"

'Twould seem there's yet more call for a fantasy Japan supplement! I know I've mentioned this before, but I REALLY want one, so's I thought I'd just give this a wee mention...

[Smith]

I have spoken to Craig, the author, and there are a few ideas knocking around...

There are no guarantees on anything here – no dates, only a very rough order – it's all very much up in there air, but it looks like there may be:

• Buntai builder/points cost breakdown – will allow for the creation of new buntai and whatnot.
• Errata/FAQ – just fixing those little queries and confusions.
• Mythic Japan – oni, tengu, shugenja etc. Unlikely to be a full supplement or an exhaustive volume of Japanese weirdness, but between this and the buntai builder, you should have what you need to turn Ronin weird.
• New buntai – singular or plural (I don't know right now).
• Special characters – more swords-for-hire, historical personalities – who knows?

I'd be optimistic that most, if not all, of these would see the light of day in some form or another (a couple may be combined, for example).

[cacofold]

Those sound like great additions. Bushido is making a foothold in my area and using some of the same mythic models would help people get started. If I could make a suggestions, I would love some additional period-specific scenarios I can use for demo games at the local store. I plan to hook them in with the ninja attack or the duel. Some sly nods to movies/tv/old legends would help distinguish Ronin from the other skirmish games.

Maybe a Yojimbo style scenario with a tooled-up  Shugyosha in the middle of the board between two other armies with only one rank 3 model, everyone else 1 or 2. Or a 47 Ronin style scenario where the Ronin infiltrate a guarded compound to slay someone.