28mm Barbary Pirates / Corsairs (10 April 2008)

[BlackStatic]

Nice!
Just the kickstart i need to finish off my crew.

But alas, no one else has begun their own (Prof? C'mon, you were thinking about it. :wink: ).

Meanderthal: Yeah it looks cool, but having already made some it would look out of place. If anyone does get one though i'd like to see it.
I am still itching to get my hands on a set of the Blaze Away arabs.

Cheers,
Sam

[Neldoreth]

I'm actually starting down the same road. For my ship I'm going to make it relatively simply, using the techniques from this handy site:

http://www.blackbirdmedia.org/lotr/?view=articles&which=corsairShip.php

Remarkably, I had little knowledge of Barbary Corsairs when I made that ship, and only recently did I realize that the ships in Lord of the Rings were actually xebecs! I plan to build another couple ships soon (as in, the next couple of years ) and will make them modeled after xebecs, as they are not my fast favourite! I used a recent for-sale fig to test my latest ideas:


I know, she isn't exactly Barbary material, but she prefers the xebec none-the-less!

Thanks Super Gibon for posting the link to my site!

I think that guy is a LAFer, maybe he'll chime in. If he does he should tell us what manufacturer produced those hot 15mm Arabs he's working on for DBA in his latest update, but I digress.

Thanks for the positive feedback on those figs! Those figs are from the Old Glory Andalusian range from the Spanish Reconquista with a few modifications! I am almost done the army, only one more element of 3Cv!.... But I digress.

I suggest you scratch build the ships. They are easy to build, and all you need is some foam, some white glue, and a foam cutter!

Thanks again,
n.

[sukhe_bator]

Oops, yet another old thread but it seems there are several of you out there thinking along the same lines as me. I like my Fantasy builds to have a functional looks and while the excellent recreation of the Corsairs of Umbar vessel posted on this Forum is inspiration enough, I have a couple of issues with the original concept.
I started off like most people more along the Mediterranean galley route using C13 Reconstructions from books as a basis. 


The sails in the LotR film are a mix of Polynesian and Chinese, a version of a 'Pacific boom' lateen rig but without the right tackle it would not work. A brief look at Junk rigging shows a complex venetian blind system for each horizontal batten. However it's easy to adapt the corsair rig so that it would open or close at one end like a fan.

I was never that convinced by all that metal armour - not very seaworthy imho. I'm leaning towards the dromon/galley look, but having seen Chinese, Korean and Japanese ship designs am more leaning towards an E Asian rather than a mediterranean look. Junk construction seems to be more straightforward to scratchbuild, being basically rectangular - in effect a catamaran with 2 keels. Armour plates could then be added like a Korean turtle ship but covering the oar box and gunwales

I know many will think I'm mad for going into so much detail, but if you are going to scratchbuild, then it's good to get the look right. Also working out what rigging you need enables you to decide what to include, or omit for wargaming purposes and it still look okay.
I'm also considering a double use - A Martian Cloudship with suitable adaptations for example?

[HerbyF]

The barbary corsairs used all kinds of mediterrainian ships & boats so dhows & xebecs would work. I know there are some ship lines out there in 15mm scale for galley wars that would work I'm not sure about 25/28mm though. Check Old Glory/Merimac Shipyards.

[Goomb]

Sukhe_bator - all your pictures are gone.  Perhaps you could fix the link?

I would definitely say galleys, xebecs and dhows were used, and as they captured merchant ships, I am sure they put them into service.  Their advantage was that their ships had sails and oars manned by slaves.  They were very fast and very manueverable.

I picked up a library book on the Thomas Jefferson's war against the Barbary pirates in the early 1800s, and there were some great naval engagements and adventures during the short war including the involvement of the US Marines (hence the "the shores of Tripoli" reference in the Marine hymn).  I will get the book and provide the title to you all in a day or so. 

To wet your whistles:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_pirate

Goomb

[het]

hello all.
am very new in this forum and quite impressed by all you have done ...!
here is my small contribution to this topic (my firts one).
have made those two ships
firts one : pirate ship
second one : much more junk style




perhaps you can see more pictures here :
http://unofficial-okkothegame.blogspot.com/

[sukhe_bator]

Oops, had a bit of a sort out of my Photobucket account and mucked this post up. I’ll try again. Just conceptual designs atm, not some of the fantastic models I’ve seen but here goes…
I know this forum is about the historical vessels for swashbuckling adventures, but since you guys are exploring the relative merits of the Corsairs of Umbar ships from the LoTR films, I thought I'd comment. For those of you who want to scratchbuild, I like my Fantasy builds to have a functional looks. While the excellent recreation of the Corsairs of Umbar vessel posted on the Fantasy Adventures forum is inspiration enough, I have a couple of issues with the original concept. Yes it is based on the Xebec, but it has too much top hamper for a lateen rig and the sails wouldn't have worked. To make a workable ship for the kind of useage you guys had in mind, it would need some tweaking.[/quote]
As a viable alternative I started off like most people more along the Mediterranean galley design route. I chose to pitch my ship design firmly in the C13 since I was using Feudals as Gondorians. I therefore looked to appropriate C13 Reconstructions from books as a basis.

The sails on the LotR film Umbar vessels are a mix of Polynesian and Chinese, a version of a 'Pacific boom' lateen rig but without the right tackle it would not work.

A brief look at Junk rigging shows a complex venetian blind system for each horizontal batten. However it's easy to adapt the corsair rig so that it would open or close at one end like a fan.

I was never that convinced by all that metal armour - not very seaworthy imho. with far too much up top for an already naturally unstable ship design that has a tendency to heel over in heavy weather. I was leaning more towards the dromon/galley look, but having seen the far more seaworthy Chinese, Korean and Japanese ship designs am now leaning more towards an E Asian rather than a mediterranean look. Junk construction also seems to be more straightforward to scratchbuild, being basically rectangular - in effect a catamaran with 2 keels. Armour plates could then be added like a Korean turtle ship but covering the oar box and gunwales

I know many will think I'm mad for going into so much detail, but if you are going to scratchbuild, then it's good to get the look right. Also working out what rigging you need enables you to decide what to include, or omit for wargaming purposes and it still look okay.
I'm also considering a double use - A Martian Cloudship with suitable adaptations for example?

[warrenpeace]

If you are building a big ship with room for your corsairs to melee on the deck, you might consider converting one of those Playmobil "Blackbeard's Pirate Ship" toys by rigging it with a pair of lateen sails.  The toy has no forecastle, a high stern castle, and a shap that really suggests using it as the basis for a corsair ship.  Sorry I don't have a picture to post, and it's not currently on the Playmobil site.  But you could probably find pictures of it on ebay or at other sellers.  It was only about $30 US when it was regularly sold in stores.

[Furt]

I made this foamboard corsair ship a while back.

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=6667.0

Your drawings intimidate me a little sukhe_bator - you really give your models a lot of thought. I have no idea if my sail and rigging would work but made it more for looks and playability. I admire the depth of your drawings and concepts though.

Something I would love to build is a Renaissance era oared galley for Turks or Maltese knights.

[sukhe_bator]

fsultana,
That's a great build with lovely attention to detail. I'm not sure I'll be able to realise all the detail that I've sketched out in my conceptual drawings, but it'll be fun trying. I take great heart in all the creativeness shown by the aeronef guys. We are knee deep in helpful hints and construction tips across all the forums on this site.
To utilise the deck space you are going to have to greatly simplify the rigging anyway, otherwise it'll just get in the way. I think previous ideas of looking at toy ships is the way forward, if not as actual candidates to use, then for ideas - they've had to go through exactly the same design process after all. I've certainly been looking more critically at my son's Playmobil Pirate Ship. Essentially what we all want is a hybrid of a toy and ship model.
If you want to know all there is to know about Renaiassance galley warfare then look no further than J F Guilmartin's Gunpowder and Galleys, Cambridge University Press, 1980. It has probably been reprinted again since my copy, but it is still a classic with lots of good arms and armour background for wargamers.