Blood on the Sands **NEW** Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...

[pocoloco]

Not familiar with the BotS rules myself (other than what has been shown in this thread) but some general thoughts:

- Death of the gladiator = not necessary to fight to the death every match, for campaign game the last match of the season could be a death match, at least for the higher ranking gladiators. Of course if death occurs in a mid-season match due to injuries, so be it. Perhaps a chance to have a medicus in your team to take care of some of the injuries

- Fame/glory = a trait that increases and decreases during the campaign season, depending how the gladiators fare in their matches. Maybe have a different fame rating for the school itself, this affects the possible winnings the lanista can get from matches?

- injuries = for campaign game, niggling injuries are recorded and affect the traits of the gladiator. Too much similar type of injuries and possible death or something almost as nasty occurs.

- training = gladiators can be trained during the season, either with experience gained from matches or lanista spending his/her hard earned cash from matches

[LeadAsbestos]

For campaign inspiration, watch Season 1 of Spartacus: a shitty Lannista w a poor house and a couple of good fighters, not much influence or draw ( a Fame rating?). As fights are won and/or new recruits become popular and/or successful, both the skills of the fighters increase AND the Fame and influence of the House increase. Better fights, travels to different locales, access to better equipment.

Sudden shocking losses can decrease all these too, as can over-extending your reach by pushing to locales that are beyond your status. FB had a lovely little Spartacus fighting game that sent you all over the Empire, and as you progressed, you went from backwater arenas to fighting in Rome, but the opposition was increasingly tougher, and you could have your House broken by a series of defeats.

So... All that.  

[Elbows]

Furt, I think you have all the right elements in the campaign system.  It actually worked quite well for myself and my buddy.  Some of the tables weren't complete the last time I read through them though.  The key points are pretty spot on though.

Gladiators of high renown often were used to instruct/assist Roman Legions in the remote parts of the Empire...maybe be able to gain a little extra coin/prestige if you volunteer a successful fighter to do so.  You had lady-visits in the tables already so that should remain --- they were frequently used to amuse womenfolk from all the books I've read.  The system should be in depth but not overbearing.

Quick and easy tables, and a quick and easy cheat sheet to hold all of the info.

[Furt]

Furt, I think you have all the right elements in the campaign system.  It actually worked quite well for myself and my buddy.  Some of the tables weren't complete the last time I read through them though.  The key points are pretty spot on though.

Thanks Elbows. I am just wondering exactly what people expect from a gladiator campaign. I have come to the realization that there are some inherent problems with getting a "semi-historical" gladiator campaign to work, which I'd be happy to explain. I'd really like to hear people's expectations first.

[OSHIROmodels]

I think from our point of view it was a case of having a 'stables' with key characters that could progress depending on the matches they had. Although we only had a few campaign turns it was quite a choice of whom to match up with whom 

I do think that it has to be something that can be left aside for a while as we have used BotS as an interim between our other campaigns.

Possibly two ways of doing it might be beneficial; a quick, minimal paper work version and a full blown essay type. 

I personally would like to see it expanded beyond the stables and include possible street fights between employees but that's just a bit of whimsy.

cheers

James

[stuuk]

Hi all, I joined specifically to post here
I've been watching your (somewhat static..!) blog Furt for quite some time.

Sorry to hear that the publishing deal didn't go through. It sounds like he wanted a board game similar to 'Munera' rather than the wargame you've written. Honestly, I would stick it on wargame vault for a fiver and bask in the glory that is 'being published'
It's a real shame the experience has put you off - don't let it. Play and enjoy the game you made, and if you never fully finish the campaign system don't worry about it. Many designers say a game is never really finished.

I have been looking for a decent gladiator game for a long time and like you have tried all of them, then wrote my own.
Your game did look very nice though from the snippets of info here - any chance I can get a look?

I can relate quite strongly to your experience as I am designing a boardgame at the moment, which has been a labour or love/hate for about 4 years now and has consumed far, far more of my free time than I ever imagined it would when I started off.
I've actually produced a quite good game (IMHO) but whether or not it will ever see the tender touch of a publisher remains a mystery.
I'd like to it, just to get it 'out there' but in honesty the margins are so low it's not worth the bother monetarily. In fact, were I a professional designer I would have starved long ago. It's is strange though that even having typed that, I'd still quite like to do it..

[Jerekin]

Hi guys,
full time lurker here.

I usually avoid to look at this thread, because I just can't bear seeing the pure awesomeness and knowing not being able to play it right now nor in the near future

Your teasing us just to hard and also for to long now.

Well, I have been able to resist for a while now, but it was time to risk a glimpse again.

I mean just bring it on. Time will tell the truth. Just do it. You can still work at it when it is released.
And maybe the potential positive feedback will unravel the knot.

I fully support the idea of a basic campaign mode and a more advanced hardcore one, especially if it makes it easier for you to let it free into the wild.


Now regarding the campaign mode I may be able to bring in some experience.

Must have been about ten years ago, when a friend and I made our own rule system for galdiatorial combat after I read about Blood Bowl in the White Dwarf (I only played Lotr, Heroquest and some RPGs at  that time). To be honest the fighting was totally simple, almost stupid, but the campaign mode and whole smear was godlike. It felt more like a business simulation. Well, maybe it's just nostalgia. I don't know.

Sadly we never wrote something down but the tables (very important imho, more later). It would have been pointless anyway, because one day his mom threw the box with the whole custom rule sets we had written over the years and our self drawn paper miniatures away. Guess she has always disliked the thougt of us sitting in the cellar like vampires at the age of 16. Still hurts d'oh.

I really have no clue anymore, which mechanics we used to simulate the events, only the positive vibes and some pictures in my brain are left.

- Personal Avatar Gladiator build with simple point system. Other fighters had random starting attributes
- Slave market with bidding system and AI bidder (with random interest but unlimited money) to stop the not-underdog from always getting la crême de la crême. (AI Cannonfodder participated in the game too). Bididng started with the weakest slaves
- Upkeep
- Betting
- Feinting and Circling before Infight (If it took to long crowd became impatient)
it felt like this game i know from my childhood just with back and forth:
- Manipulation, intrigue and sabotage (crowd, referee, Arena owner and enemy fighters, poison, countermeasurements and chance to get caught)
- A lot of mighty skills (for the fighters, Trainer and Doc alike). Hard to come buy. Usually attributes and HP were raised.
- Better equipment (represented by cards for nice eye candy) could be bought with money.
- If I remember correctly there was another resource, which gave you access to advanced markets and item shops but you could also buy things with it and it had ingame impact. Dunno maybe it was splitted into warrior fame and honor of the school or sth. I am uncertain. Makes no sense at all as soon as you would spent those points it would lower the ingame impact of honor again. Maybe you could spent it but the once owned maximum just stays valid for those matters and later earned honor gets added as well.
- Big Injury table with a lot of fun impact. The more the marrier. We used D6 for tens and ones.
I know big tables for the game itself are clumsy, BUT it is kinda fire and forgot here. Roll on table after game, then write it on the character sheet, done.
- Same for random start conditions and special pre game events
- Ingame event table with surprises or cards
- Crowd mood triggered another table
- At mood 0 crowd amok table
- Crowd mood carries over to the next game in the same arena.
- Crowd mood and character fame decides about wanting the "coup de grâce". Means the later the game and the more you start loving your character the less dirty it gets. I really like the Idea of a gritty start, where only the strongest survive.
- Acting against crowd lowers fame.
- It seems like I was heavily influences by this one Blood Bowl errata maybe take a look at the rules?
- With advancing campaign Raised hp / endurance leads to longer fights

Some other things who came to my mind. (I know combat is already finished but just pro forma)
- Poker style, Stone Scissor Paper or Stance system. thrusting, hacking, shielding, parrying, dodging, evasive rolls, jumping back, feinting etc. with different damage and hit chance. Weapon bound. Gaming cards would come in nifty I guess.
- More HP Endurance in General would be good to see "impact" unlike rolling until someone dies with one blow. While losing HP Gladiators get weaker. Maybe real time injuries.
- Strike zones
- Weapon attrition and destruction spread across the different tables (even on injury table). If the weapon is broken you would have to run towards an employee into throwing range for new weapon with a chance to receive a free strike.
- A Smith skill could be useful
- Intervening guards
- Manipulating, provoking the Crowd or heating it up through in game maneuvers or special choreography.
- You could write a big table, where you roll each start of a round. Medium rolls would have no effect and the crowd mood would add a malus or bonus. Let's say you roll 3D6 with No effects at 9-13 and crowd mood can range from -3 to +3. Just an example. (Positive effects at 14+)
- Fanblock System with Home crowd. Avatars of War style or a favour System.
- Random background with negative and positive starting traits
- Private shows who generate no income but cost money (and lifes huehue) and raising honor.

I really love the ideas of LeadAsbestos, Elbows and jimbibly. Especially fighting between Hools and Employees, Assassins or something like that would be nice with option to play it out as scenario.

Sorry, nostalgia and excitement overwhelmed me. I hope you can make use of at least some of my points somehow. At the first look it may seem a lot but just get the crowd/fame/honor whatever thing right and give the campaign some depth and make sure there is some varietey in the table results and I am fine with whatever you do.
 

Best regards,

Jerekin

P.S.: God, I created a monster...

[parcival42]

A fried just showed me Furt's blog today, although I didn't realize it until he scrolled down the page and I saw "Blood in the Sands will be Published!" in big letters!  I was so excited, since after playing one game at a con a few years back I've been chomping at the bit for more.  Then I saw the date, and considered that I haven't seen any updates here on LAF lately.  So as soon as I get home I dig for this thread and find...the publishing deal fell through.   

I'm sure I'm not as disappointed as you are Furt, but I'm certainly sad.  I even saw a giant lot of gladiators on Ebay today that I was going to pick up if your game was actually published and available.

As far as campaign rules, something as simple as a basic advancement system for the gladiators that survive a bout would be fine.  More elaborate and characterful campaign rules would certainly be welcome, but definitely not necessary.

If cash would help the project move along, I'm sure many here would be willing to pay for the playtest/combat rules.  I'd pay $10-15, possibly more, now if you were in need of funds.  I'm in need of great gladiator rules!     

[Elbows]

We need to encourage Furt to push this project forward.  It was nearly done...and while it may not be released as a big boxed board game, it would sell like dynamite as a nice quality PDF at the very least.

I have a lot of people continue to ask me about it in person...and I still run it occasionally for folks.

(stamps foot) Furt!  Furt!  Furt! Furt! 

[Watts]

Furt Furt Furt!

So what is standing in the way of this being released? Mainly funds needed to publish it?

[swordman]

Furt!  Furt!  Furt! Furt!

[von Lucky]

I obtained my first glatiator miniatures on the weekend at Little Wars Melbourne (thanks Freelancer). So I'm banging my foot too.

[rumacara]

Furt!   Furt!   Furt!   Furt!

[Furt]

Furt! Furt! Furt! Furt!

Sorry - mob mentality. 

Flattered by the thoughts gents and special thanks to Elbows, BotS' one time biggest fan, but unfortunately BotS is still where it was this time last year.

I personally don't think the game is releasable even in pdf form and my dream of a workable campaign system has been dashed on the rocks too - it is just too difficult to get the game to work as a functional continuing campaign that can be easily played in a realistic time frame. I am just being honest. 

It's not a simple matter of funds either - it is more the fact that I am not happy with the draft of the basic rules. God knows I tried.

Last time I discussed BotS on the forum I was looking for help in the hope that someone out there could help me polish up the rules and make them understandable and more clearer. A publisher did jump on board , but instead of getting what I needed, he got visions of grandeur and tried to turn BotS into something it wasn't. Very disheartening when you've worked on something for so long.

If someone has the ability and desire to take my drafts and turn them into a presentable document I'd be willing to talk, but either way its unlikely I have the willpower to nut out the campaign game.

[horridperson]

A new thread to discover!  You had me on page one with the beautiful arena and the evocative AAR.