Am I the death of Kickstarters (aka Thon Kickstarter)

[PF]

Such as shame about the Thon Kickstarter.

Looks like Kickstarter was supposed to help companies and has now become a way to help people acquire tons of cheap minis. Or perhaps people "invested" in something hotter. Then Kickstarter is some cart like on ebay. A bit sad in my opinion. I just hope the old way of selling stuff won't be affected too much by all of this and that people won't buy tall of their toys via Kickstarter.

[Major_Gilbear]

Looks like Kickstarter was supposed to help companies and has now become a way to help people acquire tons of cheap minis. Or perhaps people "invested" in something hotter. Then Kickstarter is some cart like on ebay. A bit sad in my opinion. I just hope the old way of selling stuff won't be affected too much by all of this and that people won't buy tall of their toys via Kickstarter.

People aren't completely stupid though. Either:

1) The comany wants to make money out of the KS and not just launch a new product range. Therefore, people expect freebies and extras

or

2) Companies ask for modest amounts that reflect actual costs, and people can support to get the new product range off the ground (in which case, the rewards offered are just a flat pledge and that's it).

But too many companies launch something half-baked, expect to make a fat bundle on it as if they were retailing, and cover their costs - all for no risk/financial outlay themselves... That's why supporters expect to share some of the fat.

[PF]

I'm not even sure he would have not dropped below 35K since he was at 52K not so long ago.

He's not the first who seems to have expected much more than what he had asked and cancelled the project. So perhaps the companies should be more sincere.

But had he asked for like 100K, people would have probably expected much more. Or that wouldn't have prevented people from migrating to another project.

That said, the successes and failures of Kickstarter are a bit complicated to understand. Good old way is much simplier: stuff sells or not (reasons why it does or not remain complicated to understand tho).

[PF]

But too many companies launch something half-baked,

In my opinion, that's the point of Kickstarter. You test the waters with an idea. Or perhaps Kickstarter is just for covering the costs of moulds. Better to start slowly without Kickstarter then.

I'm not sure there is that much fat to make in miniatures.

Otherwise, I tend to agree.

[n815e]

Looks like Kickstarter was supposed to help companies and has now become a way to help people acquire tons of cheap minis.

For the most part, I don't really see any big discounts on the products offered through KS.

[Kitsune]

For the most part, I don't really see any big discounts on the products offered through KS.

Some of the projects like Dreadball, Zombicide and the other CMON ones have all had deep discounts on the models being offered. Having loads of minis doesn't interest me any more, so I tend to back projects where I really think its something worthwhile.

[n815e]

He still had more money than he asked for which tells me the entire ask of 35k was a load of crap and he needed a big fat KS with lots of stretch goals to get it off the ground. Otherwise why shut it down when it was funded?

On Facebook there was this post:

3 days ago JR had responded to me in an email saying that he couldn't fund the shipping and tooling if THON kept losing $ and that he would cancel it if the backward slide continued.

[robertsjf]

Is there some sort of special stigma associated with having a failed Kickstarter project that's causing withdrawals? I always figured that a firm would ride it out and see what the last minutes might be like.

[Love_the_Lash]

It had reached the point where the backers were suggesting that he cancel it and re-launch a a later date, and with it losing about 2k a day it was unlikely to be successful. Personally I wouldn't be too harsh on him, like my g/f said to me he must be gutted.

[robertsjf]

I didn't mean for my post to sound harsh, I was just wondering what the underlying reasons are for cancelling a kickstarter instead of letting it ride to conclusion.

[AKULA]

The failure of many kickstarters is down to nothing more than not getting the product, pricing and promotion right. 

It's not greed, but rather overenthusiastic sculptors, or "ideas" guys that don't have enough financial/business nous. Most figure companies are small businesses and many were created by hobbyists rather than people that know how to run a marketing campaign....because that is all Kickstarter is.

Gamers want a bargain....

Companies - if you can't articulate the value of your product (or overestimate its worth because of all the "ooos" and "aaahhhs" you receive on well meaning but sycophantic forums) then you will either fall short of your KS target, or give away too much product and end up making a loss on the project.

There is an alternative:

Companies - make an actual physical product AND THEN sell it, and reinvest the proceeds to make more product.

Gamers - support the companies you know that actually already have a physical product that you can buy NOW.  Don't chase false discounts for products you don't really want, and will have lost interest in by the time they eventually come through your letter box in six months time.  Don't constantly pester a company to make something, and then when they spend the time and effort to make it conveniently forget you asked for it in the first place, or say "well I'll buy that if you also make this...". 

[Love_the_Lash]

Akula no offence but your reply seems a bit bitter in tone, there's no reason why gamers shouldn't invest funds in getting a product to maket. Take Rogue Trooper as an example, this is a system which we are assured would not happen without kickstarter investment and in. His respect Thon seems to be in the same boat.

If anything Kickstarter and other similar platforms allows us to see a wider range of game systems coming to market, surely this can only be a good thing.

What we as consumers / backers need to lean is not to be greedy, if we are already getting a good deal with the initial target we shouldn't throw our toys out of the pram if we don't get our own body weight in lead in stretched goal rewards.

[Love_the_Lash]

I do agree that in an ideal world each company should secure funding and then manufacture and release the product. On the other hand if I can get hold of, for example,  those cool Rusty Robots miniatures that Space Cow Smith's been planning on releasing then I figure this I a good thing.

[AKULA]

Akula no offence but your reply seems a bit bitter in tone

not bitter at all - just not sugar coated (and no offence taken).

My background is in sales and marketing, and when i look at many (but not all) wargames companies they are run by enthusiastic well-meaning gamers, but who in many cases have no previous experience of running a business.  

I'm not including all miniature companies in this, by any means - for example, if you speak to a well-run company like Hasslefree, they can give you chapter and verse on the production cost of a miniature (Sally has even posted as much previously on the FoD)- many companies simply don't know, and without this basic information, how can you set a price?

[AKULA]

ANY minis company should be able to tell you what their production costs are at least roughly before starting production.

I agree completely, but in practice many don't seem to know, or seem to forget when setting up a Kickstarter.

I've seen several KS (no names) where they seemed to got carried away with the stretch goals and have given away their margin - this gives them turnover, but no profit, or if they are really unlucky....a loss.