Fantasy Wargamers are we MUGS ?

[LawnRanger]

morning lads .

Why oh Why are Fantasy figures SO expensive up to historic gaming ?

I dont under stand how some manufactures can charge 80% more than a historical figures its not like they have to research the history books and find that the 13th had its water bottle on the right and not on the left side  is it! ,

when you do see some fantasy  minatures you think fantasy yes, but come on dont take the p*** with that figure holding that 7' sword in one hand ,

As for oh well they only cast a small amount of them so we can charge you double for it ,In that case you never see wellington or napoleon costing double do you or command packs at double the price ..

I am feed up with coys taking the p*** is it that a lot og F gamers come from the dark side of gaming GW ,and will pay stupid money for a single figure because hes got the sword of" dobber out "   

I play and paint a lot of 15mm  so know the 15mm market  well and costs, some manufactures are charging £5 for a pack of 8 figs (oh and it might take 6-8 wks IF its not in stock !!!!)  The figures are nice but come on if they drop there prices a bit i would buy not 1 unit but a whole army from them which would beifit us all  a single unit of 24 figs costing me £15 up to £8-9 pounds ! whose the winner there !and i need 12 +units . Ijust hate the fact thats it Fantasy so lets double it up.....

As for detail of the figure a orc that has a sword and a bit of cloth around does not and will not  have the fine detail on the minature than say a napoleonic figures with cuffs buttons (some buttons in groups of 2 or 3)cap bagde, water bottle numbers/ letters on them ! flitlocks, trigger guard and trigger! all in 15mm !


 i think it would take a bit longer to sculpture a historic figure than some orc ?

There are some manufactures that produce historic and fantasy minatures and i find that they can keep there prices at the same rate so why not the rest

 my Rant is over sorry about that but its so wrong !
happy gaming all LR.

[6sided]

If people are buying them then are they taking the piss?

Supply and demand.

[Conquistador]

If people are buying them then are they taking the piss?

Supply and demand.

Precisely.

Either they are selling at that price (people think it is worth the cost,) the manufacturer paid more for the (insert item that cost more - sculpt, whatever,) and wants to recover his investment, or the other items are under priced.  Perhaps historical figures are in less demand?

It's one (ridiculous "power of the character" based pricing) of the two primary reasons I don't buy "certain figures."  The "being frugal" part  is fourth, right after "their" rules are infantile.

Of course I am now paying "more" (about $4 for figures that cost less than $1 in the middle 1970's) to fill out my (non-skirmish) fantasy armies.  We will leave the factor of inflation out of the conversation for now.

Sorry for the lack of sympathy [not] but suck it up/quit whining, change manufacturers, or play the "lower priced" - which I question industry wide - historical figures as proxies.

Gracias,

Glenn

Who probably should have had coffee and/or breakfast before responding...

[Doomhippie]

I am perhaps more sympathetic but I honestly must admit that not having any kids to feed leaves me money to pay those rediculous sums some of the manufacturers charge and if I like a miniature enough I do. Supply and demand I guess. Maybe the historical miniatures ahave a longer tradition and people remember the old prices? Maybe historicals are easier to model (I've never made any miniatures so I wouldn't know)?

[King Tiger]

To be honest fantasy players don't have to spend that much, if they are, well tough poop, its your choice to do so, especially since the main culprit is GW, if you want to spend £60-80 per unit of 20-40 models (seems to be the average range of unit sizes) then tough luck, deal with it.

Personally if I wanted to play fantasy games I would look around at other systems
Foundries gods of battle
Lord of the rings
Hail Caesar

Gods of battle if I recall is units of 16 men (if its like the Greek and condotterie systems), lord of the rings only needs a handful of models, and hail Caesar although requiring more, well why not convert the huge amount of plastics available out there, find cheaper alternatives, or play a different scale, like 15mm using copplestone.

Alternatives exist in vast amounts, you just need to bother looking, if players think GW is the only supplier of models and writer of rule systems, then they will never change and will always take your money.

It's easy to blame GW, but it takes two to tango.

[Gibby]

But if I were to mention Warlord Games, would you be quite so neutral?  

[Conquistador]

But if I were to mention Warlord Games, would you be quite so neutral?  

Well, I would.   

If the topic interested me, the quality was right for the price, the scale was what I was using, and I could get entire units (alternatively, for skirmish, a wide range of different pose/appearance figures,) then I would be likely to pay more - to a point.   

At least I think there is a limit...   

Gracias,

Glenn

[Estarriol]

to be honest, commission a sculpt and get it cast, then see how long it takes to return on your investment, and pay for a replacement when the mould wears out. I think if it were possible to make a profit and charge a low cost per figure I'm sure someone would've done it by now...

[Garanhir]

Hello ranger,

I am fairly sympathetic to your plight, as it was a bit of a culture shock to me, coming back into the hobby a couple of years ago after a very long break indeed.  I think the reason for the "fantasy tax" is multifold.  For a start, a lot of fantasy figures aren't bought as ranked masses, fantasy gamers are generally desirous of a lot more difference in troop poses, and as a result, for every gamer interested in Brand X, Brand X can only sell a limited number of said miniatures to any one gamer.  Many historical companies can produce a limited range and sell shedloads of it to each and every one of their customers, especially if they're into certain periods where massed battalions of similarly-clad troops are required.  Yes, they might only buy a single Napoleon or whatever, but that miniature is often a loss-leader whose profit comes from all his friends.  When all your sales are in low numbers it's harder to turn enough profit to remain in business.  Also, it's often a matter of simple fact that an awful lot more work sometimes goes into a fantasy figure than into a mainstream historical one.  Some are like little works of art, far beyond the quality of items I purchased in my youth.  I do agree that a small number of companies found some time ago that they could take the mick, but sadly that's a theme that runs through fantasy gaming as a whole, not just miniatures.  There's a long history of "what the market will bear" pricing that probably runs back to the early days of the market's constriction.  There are some companies bucking that trend, though, as publishers, miniature manufacturers and what-have-you.  We should simply do our best to encourage them.

Still, those of us on a tight budget don't have to just put up with it or do without.  We can box clever to keep hold of those precious shekels.  I've fallen in love with the products of some fantasy companies, but to be honest we could (and I do!) use a lot of historical fellows out there, make extensive use of some mass-manufactured plastics, cruise ebay for bargains and save our big fantasy expenditures for certain monster types.  There are companies out there who sell at very low prices, but they generally can't afford the attention-grabbing adverts, either.  In those cases we simply have to do somewhat more homework.  There's always a way.

[Vermis]

Agreed about how much a person is willing to spend. In my experience historical players are a bit less concerned about the quality of the sculpting (complete kit =/= quality, a lot of the time ) and more about bulk-buying for armies.

Not to say that all or even most historical sculpts are bad (not with more Wojteks and Paul Hicks around these days) or that all fantasy sculpts are good (not with Foundries and Blood Moons around these days), but the requirements for looking good seem to be based more around individual minis for fantasy, and around the spectacle of full armies for historicals. Probably has something to do with the size of certain games in each genre too, along with the emphasis on characters. (And monsters!)

And I don't think GW should be used as any kind of example of typical pricing, or cost vs. quality. From what I see and hear they're haemorrhaging customers because of it.

Edit: what Garanhir said. Top post.

[Garanhir]

Oh, and before I forget: yes, we are mugs.  Well, I am, anyway.

I'm OK with that.

[King Tiger]

But if I were to mention Warlord Games, would you be quite so neutral?  

They don't do a fantasy system, hence why I suggested hail Caesar
But the Romans could be used for a fantasy force based off them, or the barbarians.

Dunno why you'd try to provoke a negative response perhaps in a poor attempt of starting me off, I don't hate warlord entirely, I have made this very clear, I just hate stupid releases, prices and decisions.

[robh]

Fantasy (and also SciFi) figures are overpriced compared to equivalent historical ranges, certainly the sculpting cost, moulding and casting cost and raw materials are not vastly different, certainly not enough to warrant the step change in retail pricing. Often the price of "basic" infantry models in Fantasy ranges is raised to allow the otherwise impossible price of matching large creatures and monsters to be reduced.

A lot of this is developing along with the increasing popularity of "boutique games" where the manufacturers seem to have hit on the tactic of saying "cheaper to get into than big army games" without being drawn on the issue of only getting 5 or 6 figures for that money instead of 50 or 60.

But at the end of the day manufacturers can only sell if people are buying, so as long as enough gamers think the prices are worth paying the situation is only going to get worse. If gamers agreed that no-one would pay more than $3 for an infantry figure, manufacturers would soon find a way of bringing costs down to that level.

So in answer to you title question......only if you pay those prices despite thinking them excessive.

[Vermis]

They don't do a fantasy system, hence why I suggested hail Caesar

If you wanted an example of a system with accompanying plastic ranges, but for fantasy, there is one example.

[King Tiger]

If you wanted an example of a system with accompanying plastic ranges, but for fantasy, there is one example.

But its mantic...its excrement...and so are the models they produce *remembers giant space rat with dildo drills* Jesus Christ, who on earth would ever design or purchase the rubbish they make and actually believe it to be a quality item?