Viking Social Organization

[Heldrak]

I found this rather interesting article on the interweb:

http://www.regia.org/viking2.htm

It answered several of my questions, but can anyone tell me when the "Huscarl" fits in the social organization? Are they some kind of personal bodyguard to a Jarl?

Any further resources on Viking titles & military ranks/functions?

[Lowtardog]

Indeed a Huscarl is a Household (Hus) man (Carl) and were professional warriors who would form the Jarls or for Saxons Ealdorman close bodyguard

[Plynkes]

Quoting that website: "...Viking Social Structure..."

I thought 'Viking' was an occupation like Pirate, Poet or Ombudsman, not a society.

Can any of our Scandinavian LAFfer friends clear that one up? Vikings are the chaps who sail off in longships and do pillaging and shit, right? The people who stay at home and herd sheep, knit woolly jumpers or make up sagas aren't Vikings. Am I wrong in thinking this?

[archangel1]

I think you are correct, Plynkes.  From what I remember from long ago schooldays, Norse warriors went 'a viking', using meaning raiding.  Over time, the word has gradually come to refer to anybody who came from the Scandinavian countries of the period.  Here's what Wikipedia has to say about it...

"The word Viking comes from the Old Norse word "vikingr", lit. "one who came from the fjords", from "vik", meaning a bay, creek, fjord or inlet. By the end of the Viking period, the term both referred to pirates or robbers operating by sea, known as "vikingr" in West Norse, and was used as a term for sea-born warfare and harrying in the West Norse "viking." These names were common mainly in Scandinavia itself, however, and many other terms were used in the wider world. These included heathens, northmen, Lochlannachs in the Irish tongue, the people from the north, the Danes, rus, or the "foreigners." These terms, however, were used for the Viking peoples as a whole, and thus never accounted for the variation between those that originated from different areas of Scandinavia."

[Arcticman]

I think the correct title should have been "Scandianvian Late Iron Age Social Structure". It is however mostly called the Viking Age so I suppose "Viking Age social structure" could be used.

The peoples called themselves Daner, Svear, Norrmen etc.

The only Viking Society was the "Jomsvikingar" they were a sort of mercenary/pirate band, with a code like the latter day pirates if I remember correctly. They hired themselves out to different rulers and may have had their base in present day northern Germany, in the land of the Wendes. Most knowledge about the Jomsvikigns are however from the sagas.

[Hammers]

I think the correct title should have been "Scandianvian Late Iron Age Social Structure". It is however mostly called the Viking Age so I suppose "Viking Age social structure" could be used.

The peoples called themselves Daner, Svear, Norrmen etc.

The only Viking Society was the "Jomsvikingar" they were a sort of mercenary/pirate band, with a code like the latter day pirates if I remember correctly. They hired themselves out to different rulers and may have had their base in present day northern Germany, in the land of the Wendes. Most knowledge about the Jomsvikigns are however from the sagas.

Arcticman is right. "viking" litteraly means "men (or people) of the sounds (or fjords). I do think it is used about warrior which went to the east or west (i härnad i österled eller västerled). Up till the 15th century they would, indeed, have been clannish. Danes, Jutes, Goets, Norse and others) I am of the Vender people (Smålänning) of the south east Sweden; Arcticman, is of the Svea people, I think, unless he is a Skräling or Blåman :-)

[Heldrak]

Deleted duplicate post.

[Heldrak]

Sorry, gang. I didn't mean to open up a socio-cultural can of worms...!

[Plynkes]

No, I'm sorry for hijacking your thread. Thanks for the opportunity for me to learn a few things.

[Col.Stone]

Also.. as far as i know, it was an pretty offensive thing to call anyone, vikings being raiders and thiefs, not warriors,  many people went raiding tho, but prefered to call it spoils of war when talking about their own loot

[Howard Whitehouse]

It's much like anything to do with the American west after the Civil War being connected with cowboys. Most people were not cowboys. The typical westerner was a woman in Nebraska raising children in a sod hut. You don't see that in films.

Indeed, it has been pointed out that, far from being a glamorous figure, a cowboy was simply a badly paid farm labourer on a cheap horse who was out of work every winter.  

[Arcticman]

Heldrak, no offence taken... on the contrary  
I just find these things interesting .

Hammers.. how did you know I was part skräling part blåman  :mrgreen:

[Argonor]

We Danes refer to the period 800-1100 (appr.) as the 'Viking Age', and we usually refer to the 'Danes' of that period as Vikings. For us, the Viking Age was very much a transision period between our old 'Scandinavian ways' and the 'modern' medieval age. Most of Denmark was christened during this period, and consequently we turned our attention more southwards for cultural influence...

[twrchtrwyth]

Quoting that website: "...Viking Social Structure..."

I thought 'Viking' was an occupation like Pirate, Poet or Ombudsman, not a society.

Can any of our Scandinavian LAFfer friends clear that one up? Vikings are the chaps who sail off in longships and do pillaging and shit, right? The people who stay at home and herd sheep, knit woolly jumpers or make up sagas aren't Vikings. Am I wrong in thinking this?

The Welsh of that time, (and know), called Vikings Llychlynwyr, men of Llychlyn, (Llychlyn being Welsh for Scandinavia). I'm assuming that the Welsh having a name for them based on their place of origin is due to the closer association the Welsh had with the Vikings of the time than the Saxons did.

[Arlequín]

The term "Viking" is used as a convenience, the same as was pointed out for "Cowboys". If we were being pedantically correct we would refer to them as; Norse, Danes, Geats, Gotlanders etc. We would also refer to the "Anglo-Saxons" (Another convenience) as either; Northumbrians, Mercians, West Saxons etc.

Viking society, like most societies at this time, was very fluid. Today's trader could be tomorrow's Viking in hard times, as could any farmer. Amongst what formed the gentry of the time, younger sons and other delinquents from land-poor areas were encouraged to take their restlessness elsewhere.

In England what we typify as 'Vikings' were in fact Danes, who eventually controlled an area bordered in the west by a rough line extending from Chester to London (The 'Danelaw'). The Norse were present largely in Scotland, Ireland, Cumbria and The Wirral. That given, there was a lot of intermixing between cultures in any case and family or trading ties were far more important than ethnic identities.

The Vikings were demonised in church accounts the same way as the Irish and Saxon raiders before them, I doubt that they were as bad as they were painted, at least in comparison to their contemporaries and once 'Christianised' provided their fair share of 'Saints'.

Bernard Cornwall's "The Last Kingdom" and the other books in the series are pretty good at illustrating life at this time and I recommend them as a good read anyway.

On a side note regarding the Welsh, they do to this day call all territory east of the border 'Lloegr' (The Lost Land) and all who dwell there are 'Saeson' (Saxons) as opposed to the linguistically more correct 'Lloegrwys' (People of the lost land). The derivative word 'Sais', given the right intonation is a term of abuse.

Thanks for staying awake to read this