SAGA on Hexes

[Sangennaru]

Hi there,

Just stumbled recently across SAGA, from Tomahawk Studio, and i've to say, the rules are GREAT.

One question, though: While reading the whole ruleset i thought constantly: "woot, great rules! but as a boardgame it would be even better!"



So here's my idea: Using a hexagonal board, the basic mechanics in the game will be quite the same: distances can be easily converted in hexes, and the whole "unit" concept will remain as well: in the original ruleset the unit have some distance limitation, and between the men the line of sight is not allowed, and so is the movement across a unit.
So: concentrating each 4 men in a single token, occupying a hex, can allow the dynamics to remain the same, and will fasten the game quite a lot. Furthermore, having the total objectivity of the hex distances will remove the problems about the distance measurements, since the difference between a VS and a S distance could lead to the victory or defeat, from what i've read.
Since i basically don't have a 40 men warband to test it, i would directly start with the boardgame transposition, and will report you my impressions. Only minor changes will be needed, so I think that it will take a very short time.

Any impressions? previously tried experiences?

Cheers
Jack

[Hatemonger]

While reading the whole ruleset i thought constantly: "woot, great rules! but as a boardgame it would be even better!"

I prefer free-form moves from grid-moving games, and infinitely prefer miniature games to board games with chits, so I have to completely disagree with your opinion on this point. Except of course, that they are great rules!

BUT, on your theory, I think you are correct, that the transposition would be quite simple. The most direct translation would be to simply use a hex-grid gaming mat instead of a board, like the ones used for RPGs or Starfleet Battles. I think this would work exactly as you describe.

I think the concentration of multiple men into one counter would be more complicated. Several of the mechanics revolve around how close the models are to one another, and I think you would run into difficulties transferring, for example, when a model is in contact as opposed to merely adjacent. I think you would be better off simply using smaller hexes and tokens, and keeping the 1-to-1 scale.

- H8

[tomogui]

Well, I agree with you (and Hatemonger) about SAGA being a great ruleset. It's never occurred to me to change it—I think it's one of the few systems that doesn't need any changes.

That said, I appreciate your spirit of inquiry and the restless urge to tinker, so I'm quite interested in seeing what you come up with!

[Sangennaru]

well, my first impression reading Saga is that the rules are complete. Most of the games around here are totally "open", full of holes that goodsense should fill. Saga rules are closed, and complete. All the situations are fully considered in the basic rules. And that's great.

On the other hand, to achieve this, they had to put a lot of limitations: no line of sight across units, fixed distances, elements not in combat removed instead of the one fighting.... those are bad.


Personally, i love non-hexed skirmishes a lot, but they have to be "realistic". It doesn't mean a 200 pages manual, it means that have to generate "realistic" events, somehow. Disappearing men not in fight, and arrows blocked by allies are things that totally diverge from the reality.
you'd say "eh, those are the rules, and it's needed to let them be that good". I'd answer: "ok, but those rules are basically a boardgame adapted for miniatures!" A wonderful game (and wargame), though. You can still decide to interpret the "disappearing" and other effects in order to obtain a realistic event, but it will be forced.


I'd never play "risk!" with miniatures just because minis are cool, and neither monopoly. And i would never play a realistic skirmish on hexes. But SAGA is great and not realistic, and in my opinion perfectly fits in a more "board" dimension.




for the "in contact"rules, and putting more minis together: you don't understand my point: the problems in the rules of saga are exactely focused in the shape of the unity.
A line of compact vikings is not acceptable, so they decided to leave the "open" formation, but with some limits. Those limits bring awkward situations, and concentrating 4 men per hex it will be removed: the 4-men group must be adjacent in the board, and the fight dices will be regarding to the hexes in combat.



that said, i've written a half-a-page adaption, but it's in italian, and i'm gonna test it tonight with some friends. I'll not bother to translate it now, but i'll do for shure after a couple of betatest!

cheers
Jack

[WillieB]

Hi Jack,

Good luck with your endeavour and I certainly don't want to dissapoint you by saying we tried converting SAGA to a hex based game some months ago. While, as you said it speeds up the movement phase of the game, it also generates another set of problems.
Firing angles across hexes for instance and, unless you play on very small hexes, quite a bit of trouble to portray distances like VS and even S.
We were using the 'standard' 10cm hexes by Kallistra.
But by all means try them out and let us know how it went.

Willie

[Sangennaru]

Hi Jack,

Good luck with your endeavour and I certainly don't want to dissapoint you by saying we tried converting SAGA to a hex based game some months ago. While, as you said it speeds up the movement phase of the game, it also generates another set of problems.
Firing angles across hexes for instance and, unless you play on very small hexes, quite a bit of trouble to portray distances like VS and even S.
We were using the 'standard' 10cm hexes by Kallistra.
But by all means try them out and let us know how it went.

Willie

well, the angles are a problem for shure, but it's a problem that is common to any hexed game, thus there are several solution - systems.
For the VS and S, i've my own ideas, and i'm trying to use a solution that will try to keep the gameplay the same. I'm not shure at all i will succeed, but i can still try!

[Sangennaru]

Ok, the first test took place a few days ago, and it worked pretty well.

Each token represented 4 men, and turning the token of 90° there was a counter for the casualities, as in picture:


the runes in the middle are Fatigue Tokens.
A big thanks to Feo (fellow LAFer, quite inactive though) for the graphic!
 
when calculating the hit dices, only the tokens in contact count (since a normal unit is 2 or 3 tokens wide), and the damages could be distributed among all the tokens.
the rest of the rules were completely identical.

For the distances:
L is 5
M is 3
S is 2
VS is 1

SO: any unit ending its movement adjacent to an enemy is in melee, and a unit starting its second movement when 1 hex far from the enemy must charge. It worked really well, everything was smooth and clean!

Questions and Comments are welcome! ^^