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Author Topic: Mortars  (Read 4638 times)

Offline giles the zog

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Mortars
« on: May 27, 2013, 04:23:03 PM »
Hi,

Does anyone know whether the Russians used Mortars during WW1 / RCW very much ?

And as a follow up, are there any 28mm mortars with Russian crew produced by anyone ?
The usual suspects (Copplestone, Brigade & Musketeer) don't have any (just HMGs).
I have enough patience/skill to kit bash a single mortar and crew, but if they were used extensively I'd want three or more for my different armies.

TIA.

Giles.
Wandering stars, for whom is reserved, the blackness, the darkness forever.

https://thelostcityofcarcosa.com

Offline cuprum

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Re: Mortars
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2013, 12:17:50 AM »
The Russian army has been widely circulated 9-CM MORTAR TYPE "GR"
 
9-cm mortar (bombomet) GR (German-Russian) was a captured Austrian lightweight mortar (9 cm Minenwerfer M 14 (1915)). In 1915, he was only slightly modernized General M.F. Rosenberg and put into production. As of 1915-1917. in Russia was manufactured 12519 9-cm mortar GR.








3.5-inch (88.9-mm) mortar (bombomet) Aazen
 3.5-inch (88.9-mm) bombomet Aazen created in France in 1915. In 1915-1916 manufactures in Russia.








Offline giles the zog

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Re: Mortars
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2013, 12:23:55 PM »
Thanks !
Looks like the Great War Miniatures German mortar is most appropriate, with some converted Russian crew, or nabbed from artillery sets...

Offline coggon

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Re: Mortars
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2013, 12:36:54 PM »
Old Glory makes Russian mortars and crew in their WWI line-no picture though.  I have a friend who has the OG army card-thinking about ordering a pack just to see what they are like
"MY enthusiasm greatly exceeds my talent"-Me

Offline giles the zog

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Re: Mortars
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2013, 04:08:55 PM »
Old Glory makes Russian mortars and crew in their WWI line-no picture though.  I have a friend who has the OG army card-thinking about ordering a pack just to see what they are like

Hmm, no picture = no purchase.
 :-[

My plan is to go with the GWM German set, and replace the heads with Copplestone/Brigade.

G

former user

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Re: Mortars
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2013, 06:24:58 PM »
so did the russians use mortars extensively and then in what role? I'd expect trench warfare rather than the WWII infantry support weapon style?

Offline John Grant

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Re: Mortars
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2013, 10:46:34 PM »
I've got a couple of the OG mortars and while they are not earth shatteringly good they do the job.

John

Offline cuprum

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Re: Mortars
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2013, 11:43:22 PM »
I know of cases where in the absence of conventional artillery, the opponents of the Civil War used mortars. It is in the role of support weapons, as it was during the Second World War. Of course the effectiveness of this weapon in such conditions was low. But it was better than nothing.

Offline carlos marighela

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Re: Mortars
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2013, 10:02:40 AM »
IIRC Minifigs did one of those in 15mm.

I seem to recall that the British sent a quantity of Stokes mortars to the Whites during the Civil War.
Em dezembro de '81
Botou os ingleses na roda
3 a 0 no Liverpool
Ficou marcado na história
E no Rio não tem outro igual
Só o Flamengo é campeão mundial
E agora seu povo
Pede o mundo de novo

Offline cuprum

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Re: Mortars
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2013, 04:28:46 PM »
I do not recall that among the weapons supplied Whites, were mortars ...
I think that mortars were used only remaining of the imperial army.

Offline Patrice

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Re: Mortars
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2013, 07:26:20 PM »
There are different mortars...

Light trench mortars were probably quite easy to use, once you did it a few times.

For heavy mortars you need to calculate precisely the distance to the target with a book etc, it needs intensive artillery officer training.

The game rules should reflect this.

former user

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Re: Mortars
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2013, 06:45:24 AM »
says the theory
I think it depends on the trial and error potential - if You don't see where they land it gets complicated.

Anyway, my main concern about authenticity of mortars in RCW would be the availability of mortar ammo and the logistics involved....
very different from WW2 I guess

Offline giles the zog

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Re: Mortars
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2013, 12:51:29 PM »
Thanks for all the feedback, I guess we are in agreement that:

  • Mortars were used, but few and far between
  • They were mostly captured German/Austrian varieties
  • As usual supply of shells was a problem
  • On the open steppe with more fluid warfare, they were of little value compared to the static trenches of the western front
  • A cunning game mechanism should be developed so they zero in on static targets over time

I haven't seen anything in any of the literature that contradicts the comments supplied in this thread.

This has only come up as one of the players for my planned Big Game, has asked for one, so it just prompted me to do some thinking on the subject.

The GWM German mortars arrived this morning, my mate will start the head swaps tomorrow, and I should be able to introduce a new quirky unit for one of my guests to add to the fun of the game (which is what is all about).

Thanks,
Giles.

Offline cuprum

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Re: Mortars
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2013, 02:31:22 PM »
Mortars can be very useful in urban combat.
As well have occurred during the RCW and positional battles - such as the defense of Tsaritsyn, storming Perekop and others ...

I have in my one of the books have information on the use of mortars in the Red Army:

"In the early summer of 1919 the Revolutionary Military Council of the All-Russian General Staff proposed to start forming mortar batteries as part of spare artillery brigades. Mortar battery then combined to in separate mortar divisions. For example, at the end of June 1919 on the southern front has acted 1st separate mortar division. "

"During the period from June 1918 until the end of 1919 on request the Main Artillery Administration was sent to the Red Army: guns of various calibres - 3222; mortars (bombomet) - 1006; mortars - 451; machine guns - more than 16,000; rifles - over 2 million. "

Whites has also includes the states of the regiment a mortar units. Here's an excerpt from the "Report of the new normal organization of the Army" (January 1919) developed the organizational commission of white Volunteer Army:

 "The regiment is composed of 3 battalions and machine-gun team - 12 machine guns, training team, mortar team - 2 bombomet and 2 mortars ..."

former user

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Re: Mortars
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2013, 02:50:17 PM »
well, even if "bombomet" is a grenade launcher (1006 is not plenty), 451 mortars are a few and 2 mortars per MG Company to a regiment of 3 batallions adds up consistently, though it is very little heavy support.
On the other hand the artillery was quite plentiful

 

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