30 Years War Gallowglass help.

[Nachtbringer240]

I'd say it all depends on how accurate you want to be...

So if I'd want to show a distinguishable difference between the Scots and the Swedish (outside of the banners used), I'd need to take some pretty heavy artistic licensing with the uniforms then?

[frank xerox]

Bonnets seem to have been preferred to hats in the ECW; you could sprinkle a good few through your Scots units. Nothing says Scottish pike and shot like a blue bunnet. Maybe a piper as well?

[Arthur]

So if I'd want to show a distinguishable difference between the Scots and the Swedish (outside of the banners used), I'd need to take some pretty heavy artistic licensing with the uniforms then?

'Fraid so...

For an 'accurate' depiction of Irish and Scots mercenaries in Swedish service, have a look at the following plate from the Osprey MAA on Gustavus Adolphus' infantry - sorry, can't seem to find a larger pic :



The bowman on the right is based on the Stettin plate below, but the authors stress the fact that highlanders would only fight in their native dress if they had not yet been provided with new clothing, a situation that was unlikely to last for more than a few weeks :



One thing that should be kept in mind when dealing with the 17th century is that celtic/highland clothing was not considered exotic or glamourous then but was rather viewed as backward and primitive, which is why colonels were eager to put their men in 'proper' western European clothing as quickly as possible. Culturally, the fascination with tartan and celtic traditions is very much a product of the romantic movement which swept across britain during the 19th century, and feels totally anachronistic for the 1630's.  

[Nachtbringer240]

One thing that should be kept in mind when dealing with the 17th century is that celtic/highland clothing was not considered exotic or glamourous then but was rather viewed as backward and primitive, which is why colonels were eager to put their men in 'proper' western European clothing as quickly as possible. Culturally, the fascination with tartan and celtic traditions is very much a product of the romantic movement which swept across britain during the 19th century, and feels totally anachronistic for the 1630's. 

So plaid and tartan would only be for very fresh recruits and veteran troops would be closer to Swedish battle dress (e.g. blues, greys and some yellows(?). Right. That actually does make things slightly easier for me.

[Emir of Askaristan]

Arthur is correct and you are too. It would make your job easier. My TYW units have command figures as individual figures which I place in front of the unit, making it very simple to swap ensigns and have them represent different regiments.

Why not add a few blue bonnets to your command figures, or even just the standard bearer, give him plaid breeches or have your commander from one of the Covenanter officers packs produced by various suppliers. Customise a little, add flavour and character.

[Nachtbringer240]

Arthur is correct and you are too. It would make your job easier. My TYW units have command figures as individual figures which I place in front of the unit, making it very simple to swap ensigns and have them represent different regiments.

Why not add a few blue bonnets to your command figures, or even just the standard bearer, give him plaid breeches or have your commander from one of the Covenanter officers packs produced by various suppliers. Customise a little, add flavour and character.

Well, I was thinking of using the Perry Miniatures ECW Scots standing foot command (I also might get the advancing foot command in the future if it works out) as the command group along with Warlord Games Scots Covenanters kit. Some TYW standards from Flags of War, a few morion helmets (of all sorts really).
I've also been tossing the idea of using the Armoured Pikemen, but I'm not overly sure about that idea. They'd probably just to beef up the group and make it look more of a veteran unit.

[Arthur]

So plaid and tartan would only be for very fresh recruits and veteran troops would be closer to Swedish battle dress (e.g. blues, greys and some yellows(?).

Exactly.

On the Swedish side, yellow only appears to have been worn by the Hovregiment a.k.a the yellow regiment, a German mercenary unit which was Gustavus' Lifeguard regiment of foot in effect if not in name - though it was not his personal bodyguard : that honour went to the Livgarde Kompani, who wore grey cassocks and were usually brigaded with the Hovregiment in battle.

So yes, grey would seem perfectly appropriate for Scots or Irish regiments in Swedish service, perhaps more than blue which appears to have been more common among native Swedes. Period documents don't seem to mention other colours than grey for the Scots/Irish. Of course, after a few months spent campaigning, the original issue of clothing would soon become pretty ragged and the men would wear anything they were issued, or stole or looted from the dead regardless of colour and cut : logistics always were a major headache for armies of the period and supplying cloth of the right colour wasn't always possible.   

Richard Brzezinski's Osprey MAA on Gustavus Adolphus' infantry includes several quotes from period documents which stress the poor appearance of Scottish, Irish and English recruits upon their landing in Sweden or Germany. Swedish commanders often complained about their 'nakedness' and the need to issue them with proper clothing to 'take away the mark of their miserable and barbarous condition'. Their native Irish or Scottish clothing was described as 'cheap, it being only to serve them at sea for upon arrival in Sweden they are to receive new apparel and be furnished with arms'.

[Nachtbringer240]

So yes, grey would seem perfectly appropriate for Scots or Irish regiments in Swedish service, perhaps more than blue which appears to have been more common among native Swedes. Period documents don't seem to mention other colours than grey for the Scots/Irish. Of course, after a few months spent campaigning, the original issue of clothing would soon become pretty ragged and the men would wear anything they were issued, or stole or looted from the dead regardless of colour and cut : logistics always were a major headache for armies of the period and supplying cloth of the right colour wasn't always possible.

So:

• Tartans and plaids for raw recruits
• slightly fresh greys and blues for intermediate soldiers
• and worn blues and greys along with the occasional brown or red (or whatever colour) for veteran soldiers

If I'm understanding you right.

[/list]

[Emir of Askaristan]

I think you've nailed it now yes.

[Nachtbringer240]

I think you've nailed it now yes.

Yay!