(COMMERCIAL) miniature pricing

[Lowtardog]

Horses for courses, I think if the demand is there the prices can be swallowed by the buyer. Too high and they may die the death or as has been seen others fill the gaps with proxies

[Conquistador]

<snip>

It must be stressed, though, that we should differentiate between what a company MUST charge in order to cover costs and turn a profit and what it CAN charge due to its position in the market. Most small competitors, especially in a highly atomistic market such as historical gaming figures, would lean towards the former, due to high competition, whereas GW can pretty much charge what they think a sufficient number of customers will pay, as the substitution of product is more complicated.

It also must be stressed that war gamers have this assumption that these companies make their product only to satisfy their niche/style/interest of war gaming.

Or that they have a mandate to fully produce armies to an individual's particular historical/genre/style leanings.

First - Revolutionary France; Second - Howard's (Conan) or JRRT (LOTR) view of fantasy; or third Science Fiction without "Skulz/Purity Seals."

Sadly, not true.          

Gracias,

Glenn
 

[Conquistador]

Horses for courses, I think if the demand is there the prices can be swallowed by the buyer. Too high and they may die the death or as has been seen others fill the gaps with proxies

The Free Market at work.  Assumes a wily and willing to go elsewhere consumer and practical options of course.

Gracias,

Glenn

[King Tiger]

Profit?  Which is the base requirement to stay in business?

Gracias,

Glenn

Yeah but you need loyal customers for that

[Westfalia Chris]

Yeah but you need loyal customers for that

That is quite right, and as noted elsewhere, it remains to be seen for how long GW can remain successful (to their internal requirements, mind).

Still, I would like to suggest we try going off the GW Bashwagon (as much fun as it is) and get back to a more general discussion of the topic, namely what goes into the pricing of wargames miniatures.

I think we can identify three key aspects:

a) Technical: this being the cost of getting the figure into production, e.g. sculpt, master mould, production mould, and running costs from production, e.g. material cost, wages, mould replacement. Depending on the scale and organisation of their production process, this may run higher or larger.

b) Market: this would include the projected scale for the individual figure's sales, the level of competition, the market position of the company and the intended marketing concept for the product (i.e. premium product, centre field or cheap items).

c) Distribution logistics: How do the customers get their grubby paws on the goods - such as, are there re-sellers, in which case re-seller discounts would need to be figured into the final retail price, or does the company only sell direct-to-customers. For direct sales, logistics costs would partially be covered by shipping fees and a fraction of the retail price.

That would be my impression. Any other suggestions?

[workerBee]

That is quite right, and as noted elsewhere, it remains to be seen for how long GW can remain successful (to their internal requirements, mind).

Still, I would like to suggest we try going off the GW Bashwagon (as much fun as it is) and get back to a more general discussion of the topic, namely what goes into the pricing of wargames miniatures.

I think we can identify three key aspects:

a) Technical: this being the cost of getting the figure into production, e.g. sculpt, master mould, production mould, and running costs from production, e.g. material cost, wages, mould replacement. Depending on the scale and organisation of their production process, this may run higher or larger.

b) Market: this would include the projected scale for the individual figure's sales, the level of competition, the market position of the company and the intended marketing concept for the product (i.e. premium product, centre field or cheap items).

c) Distribution logistics: How do the customers get their grubby paws on the goods - such as, are there re-sellers, in which case re-seller discounts would need to be figured into the final retail price, or does the company only sell direct-to-customers. For direct sales, logistics costs would partially be covered by shipping fees and a fraction of the retail price.

That would be my impression. Any other suggestions?

There you going being all "adult" on us.   

Okay, let's see...

Gracias,

Glenn

[workerBee]

<snip>

I think we can identify three key aspects:

a) Technical: this being the cost of getting the figure into production, e.g. sculpt, master mould, production mould, and running costs from production, e.g. material cost, wages, mould replacement. Depending on the scale and organisation of their production process, this may run higher or larger.

<snip>

That would be my impression. Any other suggestions?

Mold (see http://grammarist.com/spelling/mold-mould/) Maintenance/Replacement. Years ago done even  more poorly than Software/database maintenance (I was a programmer) because of... cost.  You really need to work estimated mold replacement costs into the figure cost. 

Sculptors make more today but more market adjusted in constant dollars/Pounds/Euros/Rupees? I don't know.  If any sculptor has solid numbers please chime in on this part.

Does a stand of 6 mm cost more or less to sculpt than a "heroic 28 mm" figure?

Gracias,

Glenn

[frogimus]

A simple plastic injection mold, without slides and lifters to form undercut details, in the size of a typical gaming sprue, around $20K.  Prototype grade (life of about 25,000 cycles) cut about 20 - 30% off that. Note: I've been out of the industry about 8 years, and asian toolmakers were driving the prices even lower.

It's funny, though. Miniatures that are part of a game usually fetch a premium price and often have the poorest quality. For example, Privateer Press (WarmaHordes) and Wyrd (Malifaux) metals are some of the worst casts I've ever had to deal with.

Then you get the companies that switch to injection molded plastic without redesigning FOR plastic. Battlefront (Flames of War), if you try to mold wall sections at 5mm, they WILL warp and cause deep sinks where they intersect!

I've recently switched to game rules that do not have a required line of miniatures so I can choose to use miniatures from companies such as Reaper that give the best balance of cost and quality.

[workerBee]

<snip>
b) Market: this would include the projected scale for the individual figure's sales, the level of competition, the market position of the company and the intended marketing concept for the product (i.e. premium product, centre field or cheap items).
<snip>

That would be my impression. Any other suggestions?

Well, I tend to be willing (in some cases) to spend more for PC's, "key" NPCs, Leaders, and Characters than for mass armies figures.  Spending $1 per figure for 20 figure units is awesome ($2 acceptable) but much over $3 means no platoons of said figures...

For 3 mm/6 mm figures I tend to cost per base/stand/unit rather than per figure.  These figures, besides being great for ACW/Napoleonic warfare/Colonials also do well for the wide open mass combat of SF/Ultra Modern warfare.  The exceptrion would be skirmish games with these size figures.

Gracias,

Glenn

[workerBee]

<snip>

c) Distribution logistics: How do the customers get their grubby paws on the goods - such as, are there re-sellers, in which case re-seller discounts would need to be figured into the final retail price, or does the company only sell direct-to-customers. For direct sales, logistics costs would partially be covered by shipping fees and a fraction of the retail price.

That would be my impression. Any other suggestions?

Well the internet has made it easier to get your hands on certain figures even if they only are sold by one source (thinking Baccus here.) 

I think certain shops who tried to limit scale, era, genre, or some other aspect to the ones the owner liked or made more profit off of made the incentive to go "on line" even more profitable and, for me, pleasurable.

Evilbay certainly might be a factor in some cases, both positive and negative for a company.

Oh, Postage/S&H, that has been a rather unexpected cost increase in the last few years for me...  even more than fluid currency rates (thinking U$D, Canadian $, Australian $, GBP, and now Euros,) over the last ten years.

Gracias,

Glenn

[workerBee]

Yeah but you need loyal customers for that

There the falling birthrate of the developed world is working against them over time, perhaps.

That said, I find there are always sufficient numbers of what some call 'fan boys' for the major and semi-major producers to keep the (apparent) demand up.  At least do far...

Gracias,

Glenn

[workerBee]

<snip>.

THe other thing rarely considered is we are not representative of most minis people. Most people dont have thousands of figures, hundreds of half finished projects and a collection that can furnish figures from the dawn of history to sci fi rayguns.

<snip>

 

You have not been around the old fogeys in this community (Saint Louis, MO,USA) then.           

Seriously, possibly true.     Probably true if you take into consideration locale and age.     

Even the local [start DWS voice] "I don't play that Science Fiction and Fantasy crap," guy who has multiple large ancients and ACW forces has what appears to be several hundred figures conservatively. 

But many locals here are either crazy fanatic historical (oh wait redundant?) war gamers or either retired or of retirement age (and can''t afford to retire.)  the benefit of the greying of the hobby, I suppose.

The "youngsters" are in their 30's or 40's often. 

Many are tri-genre (Hx, Fx, SF,) gamers and even the"Only Napoleonics" guy fields large forces of (all nations involved in the Penninsular War) that can hold up to 4 to 6 players on both sides of the table at conventions.  I never thought there were Swedes in Spain until recently (or that could be his humor/genuflecting to his ethnicity in his senior days of life.)

Even in the 1970's I was around a game group that used an entire large library conference room floor space for a massive "end of the campaign" battle that lasted from closing of the Library early Saturday night to opening late Sunday Morning.  And had to be adjudicated at the end (though it was clear which side had won to most of us.)  So my experience may be third sigma...

Gracias,

Glenn