The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread

[TheMightyFlip]

Personally I feel a better way would have been for GW to offer this mini to stores free with their regular orders for a limited time, say six months to a year, with a recommended RRP, that way people who collected the limited minis or played Guard would be able to get hold of one. As it stands very few people are going to get hold of one, and its just going to leave a bad taste in peoples mouths.

One store close to me is getting 1 mini, they are raffling it, to get a ticket you have to spend so much on GW products, how much you spend will result in how many tickets you get.... Well guess my Guard army isnt getting a new colonel.

[Cubs]

So, the store manager will get a miniature then.

[mcfonz]

Personally I feel a better way would have been for GW to offer this mini to stores free with their regular orders for a limited time, say six months to a year, with a recommended RRP, that way people who collected the limited minis or played Guard would be able to get hold of one. As it stands very few people are going to get hold of one, and its just going to leave a bad taste in peoples mouths.

One store close to me is getting 1 mini, they are raffling it, to get a ticket you have to spend so much on GW products, how much you spend will result in how many tickets you get.... Well guess my Guard army isnt getting a new colonel.

That's the same as my FLGS.

The next bit will be hard to hear perhaps. It is not meant as a personal attack and more of an observation.

I have never really liked limited edition miniatures. A lot of the time it makes their value inflate unrealistically, as in, not all of them are even worth the hassle. So I gave up giving a damn a very long time ago. But part of this is also that no one is entitled to a product. Should we get angry that it isn't more readily available just because it means we can get one? It doesn't sit right with me. It's limited, not all of us will be able to get one. However, as I said before, if this means the FLGS are being able to make money to keep them going, then I struggle to see why anyone has an issue.

The entire Kingdom Death business model is based on limited editions. 90% of what appears to be the now OOP CMON range was limited in number. There are way, way, way more things to get upset about, least of all models.

[pixelgeek]

But part of this is also that no one is entitled to a product. Should we get angry that it isn't more readily available just because it means we can get one?

True words.

[Belligerentparrot]

But part of this is also that no one is entitled to a product. Should we get angry that it isn't more readily available just because it means we can get one?

Yeah, I want to second, or third, or second Pixelgeek's seconding, this. Nothing annoys me more in the hobby. (Not saying Mr Flip was expressing this sense of entitlement).

To be honest, as good as that mini is, I've seen way better conversions of IG officers out of existing GW bits. If you want it but can't get it, hit up the bitz stockists and make your own.

[mcfonz]

My favourite Imperial Guard officer model? It isn't GW. And it isn't Imperial Guard. But it works.

[FramFramson]

I think the issue is simply one of messaging.

First, a post goes up saying "New whatsit coming soon! Extra special and cool!" and then players are left to find out on their own, a bit later, that OH BY THE WAY, this is being dropped in such limited quantities that you probably won't ever get one.

That's the worst of both worlds, as you allow people to become excited for something, to start planning how they'll use it, only to shoot them out of the saddle. That's where the so-called "feeling of entitlement" occurs, because in my experience nothing pisses people off more than taking away something they thought they had (even though players don't "have" an unreleased item, there is the presumption that the average collector can buy one and the brain treats it as such).

If the mini is described as being extremely limited in the original release, you're setting expectations much more appropriately. People will be excited at the possibility of getting one, but not to the point where they expect one.

Leaving stores with no guidelines is also not the best idea. I've seen this exact sort of promotion from many game companies before (offer something extremely limited to a store for them to dispose of as they see fit), and many store owners find the marginal profits (because the item is so damn limited in the first place), to be far worse than the headache, with long time customers arguing over it or blaming the owner for a poor distribution scheme, meaning those owners end up bearing the brunt of fanboy rage and the intention of helping their LGSs backfires. 

[mcfonz]

Sorry but that hasn't happened locally and doesn't seem to have happened in the example above either.

And to be fair, the time between the initial announcement and the clarification about numbers for stores was pretty fast. 24hrs at most I think. And it clearly wasn't planned. GW admitted as much. And it didn't have weeks and weeks of lead time only to find out before the day.

[pixelgeek]

First, a post goes up saying "New whatsit coming soon! Extra special and cool!" and then players are left to find out on their own, a bit later, that OH BY THE WAY, this is being dropped in such limited quantities that you probably won't ever get one.

We're all adults here. I think we should all be able to handle disappointment. Blaming GW because they weren't specific enough about distribution is just trying to avoid taking responsibility.

[FramFramson]

We're all adults here. I think we should all be able to handle disappointment. Blaming GW because they weren't specific enough about distribution is just trying to avoid taking responsibility.

Well, we did have posters expressing disappointment (or sardonicisms). Whether it's handled well or not, doesn't mean something that was intended to make folks feel good has instead made them feel bad.

And this is LAF. If we want to claim we're all adults here, that's fine, but the gaming public in general =/= LAF!

Mcfonz, maybe your PARTICULAR store's clientele is comprised of entirely sensible, well-behaved, emotionally-balanced individuals, but I assure you that when I was talking about store owners who find these sorts of things more headache than help, I am talking about real people, whom I know personally, who currently operate gaming stores. Nor are these owners blaming their customers or saying their customers are horrible either, but when you have literally thousands of registered customers, never mind the unregistered ones (I realize not all stores are this big - I know owners of more "ordinary" stores too), and you get one or four boxes of ~whatever~, the revenue is basically insignificant.

[FramFramson]

I'm not even really blaming GW here. It's a mistake, but one made trying to be helpful ("I'M HELPING!"). It just didn't have a lot of thought put into it, which speaks to the fact that they need to re-engage with LGSes, if they really do want to support them.

[Exiledadmiral]

I agree with everyone!

I'm going to go ahead and say I was disappointed that I'm not getting this mini. I got over it pretty quickly, but the feeling was there.

That's not to say that I want my flgs to go under, and if they've only got one or two to sell I hope they sell them for as much as they possibly can.

I'm banking on them doing another run as an event exclusive or something, since the model itself must have been in the pipeline long before this, and aren't plastic moulds horrendously expensive to get set up first time round?

[Coenus Scaldingus]

Sorry but that hasn't happened locally and doesn't seem to have happened in the example above either.

And to be fair, the time between the initial announcement and the clarification about numbers for stores was pretty fast. 24hrs at most I think.

From GW? I may well have overlooked things, but I have seen no statements from GW itself about the extent to which the models were limited. They were advertised as a "special edition" mini that was no doubt somewhat restricted in number, but the first I heard exactly how restricted was from random forum dwellers who in turn heard from their local store (and when that came out, other local stores still didn't appear to have any idea how many they would get). If I were a store owner, I may indeed rather have had GW keep their 2 Catachans than have to disappoint a few dozen customers by explaining the situation and just how few minis were provided.

I think the issue is simply one of messaging.

First, a post goes up saying "New whatsit coming soon! Extra special and cool!" and then players are left to find out on their own, a bit later, that OH BY THE WAY, this is being dropped in such limited quantities that you probably won't ever get one. [...]

I think that's a fair point. Yes, people really shouldn't be getting too upset about not being able to purchase some particular toy soldier. But people would have been less disappointed if it was immediately clear they would almost certainly be unable to obtain it, rather than how it went down now.


As for the whole limited edition thing, well, it is what it is. I guess I typically don't really care as I don't care for the models in question anyway (for GW specifically, the limited models are space marines 80% of the time, which is excellent as my interest in those is even more limited than the number of Catachans available to independent game stores!). But I'd probably be annoyed if a faction I'm a big fan of that hardly ever gets new releases finally appears to get something new and great, only to later find out I'd either have to spend about 200 quid or I'm out of luck. The normal artificial limitation drives up prices a fair bit (including the actual RRP...), but the amount this one goes for on eBay... 

[mcfonz]

I think there needs to be a clear line here.

GW rarely makes a model they describe as 'limited edition' anymore. They have miniatures that they call 'Event Only' - which has been something that they have done for quite some time, prior to doing plastic miniatures even. It tends to mean they carry a stock of them at events, which included Salute a few years ago. It just meant they were not available at retail.

Some of them have been available for more than one store opening or store anniversary for example. There are reports of others being available at Nottingham HQ.

but I have seen no statements from GW itself about the extent to which the models were limited.

I would hazard a guess that this is because it would very much depend upon how many stores asked for them. I don't think it was a case of sending two out to every store for example. I am aware that a discussion took place between my local store and GW for example.

If I were a store owner, I may indeed rather have had GW keep their 2 Catachans than have to disappoint a few dozen customers by explaining the situation and just how few minis were provided.

Fine, then you weren't a store that needed the helping hand. I was always told not to bite the hand that feeds you.

1) Mcfonz, maybe your PARTICULAR store's clientele is comprised of entirely sensible, well-behaved, emotionally-balanced individuals,
2) but I assure you that when I was talking about store owners who find these sorts of things more headache than help, I am talking about real people, whom I know personally, who currently operate gaming stores.
3) Nor are these owners blaming their customers or saying their customers are horrible either, but when you have literally thousands of registered customers, never mind the unregistered ones (I realize not all stores are this big - I know owners of more "ordinary" stores too), and you get one or four boxes of ~whatever~, the revenue is basically insignificant.

1) There are two to three stores in Norwich. The one I call my FLGS is yes, comprised of entirely sensible and well-behaved people. Emotionally balanced is subjective. You can be emotionally unbalanced and still be well behaved people and sensible. Of the other two, one is really a toy store so people will only really pop in and out so a different type of customer, and the other is a direct competitor of the one I refer to. I know all three reasonably well and I haven't seen anyone spit their dummy out.
2) Suggesting they are people you know, are real and currently operating gaming stores suggests that you believe I am making what I have said up. I haven't.
3) In which case, the idea of these models isn't for them and I would recommend they don't take up their allocation and perhaps allow another store who is struggling more financially due to the current conditions to take advantage of them.

It was less than 24hrs from it being announced to stores getting the information and it filtering out across the internet. Considering that this wasn't likely to have been something that had a lot of planning behind it, GW has been shut for some of this period too, I think there also has to be a bit of a pinch of salt. This miniature wasn't going to be used in this way, they decided to use it this way in response to the pandemic. It was likely quite a spontaneous act, and one with the right intention and, quite rare for GW, recognition that their indy stockists tend to do a fantastic job where they can't in supporting the community through regular gaming venues etc.

But by all means, slag them off for not getting it spot on. Some people will just never be happy with GW no matter what.

Whether it's handled well or not, doesn't mean something that was intended to make folks feel good has instead made them feel bad.

It goes back to my point then doesn't it? Should anyone really be that upset? This reminds me of the recasters on facebook that bang on about there being nothing wrong with recasting OOP models because they should be able to own them - as if it is a right. Even with the normal event only miniatures there can be a limited stock depending upon the event they are being sold for.

[Keith]

Interesting thread.

GW have been on +80% furlough for a significant period now, across all departments and only just starting to get up to speed again. As you can imagine this has a significant impact across the entire organisation so I can forgive if the social media or marketing teams aren't 100% on point right now. The whole org is desperately under-resourced.

I'm confident this initiative comes from a good place and imagine the original (and most valuable) intention is to promote foot-fall towards their independent stockists. Clearly they aren't going to provide enough 'limited' figures worldwide to have a significant impact on struggling businesses. What can be achieved though is to encourage customers to reach out to indies and, in some cases, even remember they exist at this time. If I was running small store right now I'd certainly appreciate a public nod from GW during a period when clearly their own stores are going to be in a heavily compromised financial situation.