The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread

[beefcake]

Sounds like Tyranid kill teams will be next to useless then.

[Belligerentparrot]

No armour saves in melee

The justification is silly, I agree. But there were no armour saves in c/c in 2nd ed Space Marine for example, and it worked really well.
 The fact that Kill Team shooting sounds a little closer to 2nd ed SM than normal 40K makes me wonder if the rules writers were digging into GW's past.

[BZ]

Nobody until now? Really?
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/07/21/square-bases-and-kislev-ascendant-see-your-questions-about-warhammer-the-old-world-answered/

[Sir_Theo]

I have absolutely no doubt I will.end up buying the rules (and any other fancy hardback book they bring out)

Id also be very tempted by a Kislevite range

[Cubs]

I've been idly keeping an eye on the Old World project, but welcome as it is, I do fear that it will have the modern aesthetics for rules and models. In which case, it won't be for me. Bring back the simpler, classic designs and I might just part with some geld.

[The Voivod]

I was very excited about this when they first pronounced it but have since been completely burned out by GW way of dealing with rules.
I have had to accept that their rules are just no longer for me. They don't feel fresh and they they don't feel like they'll never be balanced as pushing the newest models is more important than having a balanced game.
I think I'll need to use other rules with my GW armies.

I'll still check it out. I'm curious and they might actually pleasantly surprise me.

[Mr. White]

I'm not really sure why they're doing this. WFB sales lagged, the old world storyline progressed and was destroyed, players were told to rebase to rounds. Now, there's a reverse course and some of these older armies can go back to squares? I guess market research shows it'll be profitable?

I'm also out. I was a huge GW fan and not just Oldhammer style nostalgia either. I think GW hit another major creative peak around 2016 with the nifty standalone titles like Gorechosen and Silver Tower.

However, I'm not a fan of recently released titles. All the lines seem to be based on the Fantasy Flight Games - micro transaction model. "Not just minis and rules, but buy some cards, some tokens, some rulers, some dice, etc"...all of which go oop.

So, outside of BB, I'm pretty much out on GW. I _much_ prefer the old school leanings of books like Osprey's Lion/Dragon Rampant and Ronin. A thin rule book, some d6s, and any minis.

[Sir_Theo]

It does seem a bit odd. If they wanted to bring back an Old World themed product to milk the old fans through the power of nostalgia id have personally gone with an old world themed Warhammer Quest (I suppose Cursed City isn't too far off this) and maybe give Mordheim the Newcromunda treatment

[Mr. White]

Or something like Mordheim. Gang level skirmish games have been en vogue in recent years. they could ride that trend and release a few Old World style minis for the oldheads and those that like that era.

From reports when they crushed the Old World, it was that sales were slumping and Rank n Flank wasn't popular anymore. Are KoW and Oathmark really doing so well that GW thinks this will be profitable again? What about the risk this has of splitting their current fantasy base? Maybe the modern gamer has so much disposable income they'll buy armies in both AoS and Old World? I dunno.

[Mammoth miniatures]

Or something like Mordheim. Gang level skirmish games have been en vogue in recent years. they could ride that trend and release a few Old World style minis for the oldheads and those that like that era.

An ideal one would be to do a mordheim source-book for warcry, then release mordhiem faction and campaign packs that allow you to use your old gangs or, More likely, new miniatures from the old world range.

[Storm Wolf]

An ideal one would be to do a mordheim source-book for warcry, then release mordhiem faction and campaign packs that allow you to use your old gangs or, More likely, new miniatures from the old world range.

Sod the new stuff, with its endless special rules for everything before, during and after the game, it's cards and etc, etc. (Disclaimer: I do like the early Primaris Marines before they got too fussy, except I use them for correct "Tru-scale" marines)

Some of that was true for oldhammer/old40K (6-7th) but it was still far better than chrome 40K or whatever the hell the fantasy equivalent is supposed to be?

Only really intersting thing recently released (well 2017  ) by GW IMHO was Shadow Wars: Armageddon, but they killed that stone flat also  , I am actually going to use it to run my version of Stargrave with Necromunda mechanics for my sins 

Sorry if the above comes across a bit strange, but I have just eaten a big slab of bread pudding and the sugar rush may have kicked in

Happy gaming people

[Sir_Theo]

I played quite a lot of Shadow War, but it was only ever a product to test the water I think. It was pretty much just 2nd ed 40k/Old Necromunda after all.

Unfortunately my gaming friend are still very much into whatever is new from GW so as soon as Kill Team came out that was it.

[Storm Wolf]

I played quite a lot of Shadow War, but it was only ever a product to test the water I think. It was pretty much just 2nd ed 40k/Old Necromunda after all.

Unfortunately my gaming friend are still very much into whatever is new from GW so as soon as Kill Team came out that was it.

You are quite correct it is almost a direct port from 2nd & Necro, but thats part of the charm I feel. I just hate this whole battleforged nonsense and endless warlord traits etc trap that the modern stuff seems to have fallen into. Yawn!

I desperately tried to like it (bought into killteam/40K 8 & 9th) but I can`t get on with the reams of special rules it reminds me of trying to play "Fizbin" on the wrong day  . Oh and the endless rulebooks to buy

Glen

[Elbows]

Reading that WHC post makes it sound like this is more of a cash grab then a proper return to The Old World.  I'm out of GW 100% so it doesn't really matter to me.  I simply cannot stand the way GW does business...so I have a feeling you're going to find a lot of classic Warhammer Fantasy fans getting burned out by the GW "power creep, constant DLC, endless errata, new books every 12 months" business.

I have a feeling GW saw a gap in their all-consuming hunger, the community that is still playing rank-n-flank, but with Mantic's rules or other rule sets, etc.  At the very least GW figures they can sell old players a new $45-60 book for their old army.

I'll be shocked if GW actually supports the game with full armies of models - a competing product (in a sense) for their own AoS.  I suspect they realized though that most AoS players are more 40K players dabbling in fantasy, with very few Warhammer Fantasy converts.

[Dolmot]

I'm actually cautiously optimistic about this.

After being an avid WHFB player in the early-mid 00s, I did my personal "rage quit" somewhere around 2008, maybe. That was the time when Kirbyism at GW got really crazy. No specialist games. No internet presence beside the shop site. No special offers. No bits service. No fan material or other improvisation in WD. They even axed the mail order troll title and cartoon characters, explaining that "we're too serious for that now". Just a catalogue-like magazine and communicating with the fan base via numerous C&Ds. Someone claimed that their internal policy was "if the fans want something, we precisely won't do it, just to show them who's the boss". No idea whether that was really true, but it definitely felt like their modus operandi.

The gaming scene itself had also turned extremely toxic in ways that I may explain in more detail later (if I find it worthwhile). There was just no fun of any kind in sight so why bother.

7th edition (2006)? Rules-wise, nice small improvements over 6th. I even got a fancy collectors' version of the rulebook. However, it was ruined by a couple of abysmal army books. GW provided no fixes or support whatsoever in those days, and the tournament-driven scene was violently against any homebrew changes, thus the end result turned borderline unplayable as the army books rolled in.

8th edition (2010)? Had already lost my interest for various reasons, some of them listed above. Also, as a possible act of overcompensation against "cavalryhammer" accusations, the rules and releases seemed to favour ludicrously large (monstrous) infantry units requiring too much investment and hassle for an average gamer. Kirbyism continued. The game seemed to lose its popularity and eventually got killed for good as you know.

Age of Sigmar (2015)? "Geez, our fantasy game requiring 50-strong units no longer sells. That other skirmish-format game about space marines still does. Ergo, the only possible solution is to turn WHFB into a skirmish-format game about space marines too!" I have no interest whatsoever in space marines. Also, there was already a skirmish-format mid-tech-level game, known as Warmachine/Hordes. Renaming races and units to keyboard-mashed nonsense for IP protection or whatever. Just...why bother? Absolutely nothing in here for me.

However, around that time, there was one ray of light, namely appointment of Rountree as CEO. Suddenly there was appreciation for customers and fans, hobby articles, rumours, videos, fan-made material, specialist games, stuff of legends, you name it. GW sales and stock price skyrocketed.

Still, no real game of fantasy battles.

I was completely disconnected from all things GW for over 10 years, thus the bitter details have already been lost in time, like tears in the rain. I feel like I could do a complete reboot now.


Well, that rant got a bit long. Anyway, what we have in here looks like a complete reversal of Kirbyism and AoS shenanigans. Could you call that full list of announcements (square bases, old names, old world, even name-dropping 1st and 3rd editions) total fan service to the oldhammer crowd? Too good to be true? Is there a catch? We'll see but I definitely won't jump into doomsaying yet.

Is it going to break through? Is it going to last? To be honest, I don't care. The local scene has been playing 9th Age, Kings of War and various oldhammers for years with varying levels of popularity. If the New Old World is a complete stinker...hey, just continue with those alternate versions which are already doing reasonably well. There's nothing to lose, really, only a moderate chance of winning if the new game is a good one. If they don't provide a full line of miniatures...hey, I already have plenty, and even a small handful of oldhammer-compatible terrain releases with a "tech update" to current production values would make me happy enough.

Honestly, I have nothing to dislike in that announcement. It promises exactly what I'm looking for. Regarding the implementation, see above. I can take any bits that are actually good, skip the rest, and keep playing sporadically. Meanwhile, there's a good chance that it will bring in some old and new players, who may stick around even if the community decides to play another edition instead. No commitments, just opportunities.