The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread

[Momotaro]

And the recycling of the useless junk begins:

"All the rules, dice, cards and boards from Horus Heresy: Betrayal At Calth"
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=84465.0

They're selling like hotcakes on eBay, TrollTrader has shifted dozens this morning already.  Just managed to pick up one of the last sets.  2ft x 2.5 ft of hex-tiled gameboard, some funky dice (can always find a use for those).  Maybe the game is even worth a look    So... happy bunny.

I have a copy of Space Hulk that I bought without the minis too - very happy with all the gaming pieces that I got.  Already have dozens - hundreds - of painted minis I can play that with, no need to add more to the pile.

As for boardgames vs tabletop minis games... boardgames these days give a fun evening's play with tight and relatively simple rules.  And component quality is getting pretty good.  X-wing was a game-changer, I feel, and not just because it's Star Wars.  Every element of the game, from painted minis and pick-up time to depth of expansion and sales strategy, makes GW's efforts look tired and pedestrian.

Nowt wrong with big rulesets (as long as you don't mistake pure bulk for quality of simulation) and collecting and painting a big army can be a pure joy (though Pete Berry of Baccus had some words to say on the effect the move to 28mm had).  But I can get into fast, snappy, clever rulesets and still collect and paint quality minis, and build little worlds for them to inhabit.

So bring it on - it will be interesting to see what they come up with.  Maybe collecting and painting Mordheim with half a dozen expansions becomes an achievable goal and GW is big enough to do that for half a dozen lines.  I will at least give them a chance to make the damn games before I rip into them...

It takes more than nostalgia to relaunch an old game - the new one needs to be good in itself to be a success.  So if you like an old game then collect the minis and play the games (nice to be off the expansion treadmill) for themselves, but you're not doing "the community" or the company any favours.

[grant]

Interesting. I don't see the appeal, but obviously I'm wrong!

[Mason]

...... if you like an old game then collect the minis and play the games (nice to be off the expansion treadmill) for themselves, but you're not doing "the community" or the company any favours.

I have to, at least partially, disagree, mate.
You may not be doing the company any favours but the community for all the 'old' Specialist Games has its own support and I feel that continuing with the old games does support the 'old' (Oldhammer in this case) community, mate.
When GW pulled the plug on Specialist Games, the community did not die, it just found alternatives.
Better ones in some cases.
 

[Momotaro]

Ok you're right - there is a community, certainly enough to keep people sculpting Blood Bowl teams.  And people contributing to rules upkeep.  And enough for Mantic to nick the ideas and kickstart them...Mea culpa.

Still not sure GW owes them anything though.  I reckon the new games will succeed or fail on their own merits.

[Modhail]

I reckon the new games will succeed or fail on their own merits.

And GW's ability to get people to trust them again after losing the Specialist Games and their previous behaviour towards them, I'm afraid. A lot of people haven't entirely forgiven them their mass ludicide.

[Mr Brown]

I think it's unfair to say Mantic just nicked the ideas and kickstarted some games. Dreadball for example plays very different to blood bowl and are really two very different beasts. Whilst the concept of a 'sports' style game might not be original you could be more accurate to say Mantic nicked the ideas from Peter Adolph. After all, Subbuteo predates Blood Bowl by a good few decades...

On topic though, I can only agree with the likes of Vermis. The number of people I have seen on social media ecstatic that their favourite games are coming back is just ridiculous. The never went away! The 'support' from GW was free rules and a small range of miniatures. Almost all of the specialist games have a better support in the hands of the players. I've never got the whole dead game idea. Just because a company no longer sells it, doesn't mean you can't play it.

As for the IP issues, I can see all sides of the argument. I personally have never felt constrained to use only one company's miniatures. I have conformed for a tournament once but as I dislike the general concept of a wargames tournament now it matters not where my miniatures come from. I have a lot of GW miniatures and really like them don't get me wrong, it's just a lack of certain miniatures from a website won't stop me using some imagination or fiddling with fluff to suit myself.

Overall I think it's good that there may be some new box sets with nice figures and components. It may also increase the number of people looking into games I currently play. I dread the very likely possibility that there will be some negative pressure applied to those that have spent many hours for the vendor of others like the guys at Yak and Net Epic.

[Argonor]

Anyone eyeballing any mini I put on the table with the words 'You can't/are not allowed to use that!' is going to get the answer: 'OK, anyone else for a game? - And good luck with finding another gaming buddy, btw!'

Simple as that.

[Gibby]

I don't think anyone here was making the argument that you had to use official miniatures for Specialist Games.

[Hobgoblin]

As for the IP issues, I can see all sides of the argument. I personally have never felt constrained to use only one company's miniatures. I have conformed for a tournament once but as I dislike the general concept of a wargames tournament now it matters not where my miniatures come from. I have a lot of GW miniatures and really like them don't get me wrong, it's just a lack of certain miniatures from a website won't stop me using some imagination or fiddling with fluff to suit myself.

After a twenty-year-plus hiatus from fantasy gaming, I was astonished to find that considerable numbers of people appear to believe that only certain miniatures should be used with specific games. I can remember one of the the early editions of Warhammer (second?) actively encouraging the use of any models with the game, including 54mm. And then there was that Warhammer poster that showed Minifigs pig-faced orcs alongside Citadel's Fantasy Tribes ...

Things have, rather depressingly, changed.

[grant]

Unless people are spoon-fed now, they starve. Ugh....

[Rhoderic]

Just because a company no longer sells it, doesn't mean you can't play it.

It's a bit more complicated than that. I can play it, but the figures that make me want to play it are not necessarily available and may be too difficult to convert - sci-fi tribals clad in giant rat pelts, fantasy warrior nuns with hammers, sleek curvy spaceships with sail-like fins (or fin-like sails, whatever). Fiddling with the fluff so I can play the ruleset without the figures that make the setting attractive would defeat the purpose.

That's not to say I want the figures to be made specifically by GW. I just want the figures to be made, period. If GW makes the figures, fine. If a third-party manufacturer makes good substitutes, better. I dislike GW and admire third-party manufacturers that come from and cater to the fanbase, but neither of those things will stop me buying from GW if they've got the figures I want and no one else makes substitutes.

That said, my suspicion as things stand is that GW will turn out to not make the figures I want, after all. I feel that expecting GW to "re-explore" the full potential of the SGs with a steady progression of expansion sets would be to build castles in the air. Maybe I'll turn out to be wrong (because board-miniature game hybrids based on an "expansion sets" business model are clearly on the upswing in the industry at large, and presumably quite lucrative), but with their track record for the past 10-15 years, it only feels right to be cynical at this point and just expect a few Dreadfleet-style one-offs.

[Cherno]

Next thing you tell me, it's called "Wargaming"instead of "the GW Hobby"! 

[Col. Aubrey Bagshot]

We all agree just how much the world has changed in the last ten years...
Loads of small companies now make excellent minis that can be used in any game.
Rule sets having become living' things.
Games that GW started many years ago, and dis owned in some cases, now flourish around the world.

But GW is still GW...

So now imagine what would happen if GW launched a kickstarter for Mordhiem or Epic or Bloodbowl....
Now there's an idea....

 

[Rhoderic]

So now imagine what would happen if GW launched a kickstarter for Mordhiem or Epic or Bloodbowl....
Now there's an idea....

 

Not their thing. I don't think there are many of 10-year-olds on Kickstarter...

[YPU]

Not their thing. I don't think there are many of 10-year-olds on Kickstarter...

Sometimes I feel like kick starter is only 12 year olds with their parents credit cards.