Ancients as Fantasy

[workerBee]

A little different but I always believed a good set of historical rules should be able to handle (at least low to middle power magic) fantasy gaming.

What would you suggest would be good rules that reward ancients style war games that I might "add on" some form of fantasy elements?

Mostly I am thinking good rules that allow me to model fantasy races with traits of forces already in the historical rules.

Gracias,

Glenn

[v_lazy_dragon]

Perhaps a little late to be truly 'ancient' but I know lots of folks have used SAGA too do things like LOTR' so perhaps that's an option?

[Froggy the Great]

I'm developing a variant on FUBAR that aims to do exactly that - http://www.forgeofwar.uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=331

So far I have Romans, Amazons, and Snakemen.  I'm going to be adding Greeks of various citystates and Persians as soon as they bubble to the top of the motivated-to-paint queue.

[Lowtardog]

Crusader rules, they even have a pdf supplement whihc converts it to fantasy, generic that they ahve traits but could use historical minis.

[xpalpatinex]

Depends on the size of forces you're looking at.

Armies - Warhammer Ancient Battles, Hail Caesar,
Skirmish -  Dux Britanniarum, Saga, Lord of the rings (or any of it's offshots from Warhammer Historical).


-Brinton

[angstpuppet]

Armies of Arcana could be good for what you are looking for but last I looked the community seems to stagnant and the company that produces the book has not done much with it in a while.  They have Greek, Amazon, and Roman lists as well as various other historical and fantasy lists.

[Conquistador]

Thanks to all so far.  

I have/had fantasy rules (AoA, sold; FR!2nd,) but was interested in historical rules as a base.

I pretty see fantasy races as variations on human forces but that is for another thread.

Keep up with some suggestions, I am researching the ones made already.

Gracias,

Glenn

[redzed]

IMPETVS  LINK

[Mad Doc Morris]

Actually, since most fantasy settings have their base in human history, particularly "ancient" history (as a broad-brush term covering anything pre-modern), I reckon any historical ruleset is adaptable in some way. It has been done even for the more 'serious' sets such as DBx, Impetus or Dux Britanniarum, to name but the few I know of first-hand.

Therefore, let's not just throw in our preferred sets, especially not in one-liners – there is no point. What precisely are you after, Glenn (or anybody interested)? Generic rules which are easily, i.e. without a lot of conversion work, adopted for fantasy gaming? Rules which accept the addition of house/special rules? Or ready-made sets with built-in fantasy options?
And, actually in the first place, what makes "ancients style gaming" in this context? massed battles or skirmishes? equipment, setting, troops or, for that matter, creatures?

[ink the troll]

IMPETVS  LINK

That looks useful- didn't even now there was a section for fantasy stuff (or a basic free version of the impetvs rules). Should I ever start gaming, I just might use that one for my 15mm stuff.

[area23]

Magic is psychology. Realistic magic in a historical context would be boosting the morale of friendly troops or provoking confusion or terror to the enemy.

[Hobbit]

I think that it would be interesting to add omens and portents to ancients games. They're frequently mentioned in historical accounts of ancient battles and seem to have affected the mind set of leaders. These could be simply incorporated with bonuses or penalties to certain actions (obviously all depending upon the specific rule set). Players should have the choice of whether or not to consult the oracles before the battle.

[workerBee]

Actually, since most fantasy settings have their base in human history, particularly "ancient" history (as a broad-brush term covering anything pre-modern), I reckon any historical ruleset is adaptable in some way. It has been done even for the more 'serious' sets such as DBx, Impetus or Dux Britanniarum, to name but the few I know of first-hand.

Therefore, let's not just throw in our preferred sets, especially not in one-liners – there is no point. What precisely are you after, Glenn (or anybody interested)? Generic rules which are easily, i.e. without a lot of conversion work, adopted for fantasy gaming? Rules which accept the addition of house/special rules? Or ready-made sets with built-in fantasy options?
And, actually in the first place, what makes "ancients style gaming" in this context? massed battles or skirmishes? equipment, setting, troops or, for that matter, creatures?

Actually "preferred sets" provide potential rules for me.  But "why" the posterthinks they are of value shouldbe part and parcel of the post.

In my mind, ancients are mostly mass battles - see http://listverse.com/2008/07/31/10-most-decisive-ancient-battles/ for the kind of thing I was considering as also common for Fantasy battles.

I was thinking that there are certain stereotypes/tropes that define fantasy races that could be used in Ancients rules.  To me fantasy races are human practices gone on steroids.

Randomly assigning some examples:

Perhaps Orcs/Goblins could be troops with a tendency for overwhelming spontaneous attacks who get bonuses in initial combat but tend not  rally if repulsed.

Back in the Gary Gygax days his otherwise lamentable foray into ancients actually had one item of value - ancient troops (such as the New Kingdom Egyptians) could go out control and launch into pursuits of defeated foes that the player/general didn't want to happen and put the army at risk in the rules.  The concept that a local/tactical victory could lead to the danger of defeat of the Army was something the first rules I was exposed to would never have allowed to happen.  The all seeing eye of the 100 foot general type control was threatened by the dice/morale ri=ules int he set.  Morale (or control) might result in fleeing troops or uncontrolled charges/pursuits.

Perhaps dwarf troops are disciplined enough to be able to perform maneuvers  like practiced by the Romans at their peak. 

Or perhaps Elves, as the result of long lives but valuing that life span are "brittle" in morale  but strong in combat. 

Gracias,

Glenn

[area23]

Some concepts for portents and omens and potential loss of controlof units were tried with Fantasy Warriors. You can get a free download of the game from Mirliton and EM4.

[Conquistador]

Some concepts for portents and omens and potential loss of controlof units were tried with Fantasy Warriors. You can get a free download of the game from Mirliton and EM4.

It also was a part of Gary Gygax's ancients rules, (oh my, a second good thing about them,) that seemed like it could be a lot of fun.  Knowing the "goat entrails were not good" could have affected your battle plans I suspect.

Gracias,

Glenn